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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C11: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd (Read 344348 times)
MarinFan
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #61 - 07/17/06 at 13:02:12
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Hello,

Yes, 9...0.0 looks the most interesting now. For sometime, the main-line was 
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5 
9.Qd2 0-0 10.0-0-0 a6 11.h4 as in the already mentioned Kasparov - Short game. Top players are now trying other moves again, i.e. 10g3 (Kasparov), and 11 Qf2 (Kramnik).
                 If still want to go down the vacuum route, boo's from the crowd, then 
[Event "Horgen"]
[Site "Horgen"]
[Date "1995.10.??"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Kasparov,Garry"]
[Black "Timman,Jan H"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "C11"]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5 
9.Qd2 Bxd4 10.Bxd4 Nxd4 11.Qxd4 Qb6 12.Qd2 Nc5 etc 
is an option, instead of excepting pawn sacs.
        Umm, and my admittedly risky suggestion of 8...Qb6 given a ?, with no analysis at all.  Angry
  
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Keano
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #60 - 07/17/06 at 07:41:02
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Black should castle now  Cool
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #59 - 07/17/06 at 07:11:11
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MNb wrote on 07/17/06 at 03:55:18:
Go, Ostapbender, go! Let's poison S_F with that tasty looking wood!  Smiley


MNb, What do you think I am, a termite? Angry
  
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castlerock
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5
Reply #58 - 07/17/06 at 05:31:40
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Postpone it to 48 hrs and I promise to take your side. (Ostapbender bribed me to help you)
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #57 - 07/17/06 at 04:24:52
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OstapBender wrote on 07/17/06 at 04:10:36:
The gauntlet has been thrown!  
And the commanders of the white army have answered 
- and answered with vigor!




Yeah, yeah.

I'll respond within 24 hour or so just in case there's somebody (anybody? Cry ) who wants to give me some advice.
  
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OstapBender
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #56 - 07/17/06 at 04:10:36
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The will of my advisors/teammates has been stated clearly enough, and you guys are urging me in exactly the direction I want to go!  Who can resist?

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5 9.Qd2


current position


The gauntlet has been thrown!  
And the commanders of the white army have answered 
- and answered with vigor!

  

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MNb
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #55 - 07/17/06 at 03:55:18
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Well, if an admirer of My System thinks he should gamble a pawn or more, then the admirer of The art of sacrifice only can encourage him .....
Go, Ostapbender, go! Let's poison S_F with that tasty looking wood!  Smiley
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #54 - 07/17/06 at 03:13:45
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Well, with your threatened Vacuum Cleaner style draw offer, that would hardly be sporting of me - would it?  Roll Eyes
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #53 - 07/17/06 at 03:09:00
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OstapBender wrote on 07/17/06 at 03:06:26:

However, if anyone can suggest an improvement for White in Watson's line cited above...

...like Ross Perot, I'm all ears.




Well, you could resign.   Wink
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #52 - 07/17/06 at 03:06:26
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Another line to consider:

After 9.Be2 Watson gives: 9... Qb6 10. Na4 Qa5+ 11. c3 Nxd4 12. Bxd4 Bxd4 13. Qxd4 O-O 14. O-O b6 15. Bd1 Ba6 16. b4 Qb5 17. Rf3 Qc4=

So far I haven't run across anything that convinces me that 9.Be2 is really any less drawish than the abhorrent VC (Vacuum Cleaner).  In the VC-like line with the moves Be2 and ...0-0 added, I agree with MNb that that the insertion of these moves improves White's prospects - but, unfortunately for White, Black can do better than this.

So far the most promising line looks like the gambit 9.Qd2 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Bxd4 11.Qxd4 Qb6 12.Qd2 not only from the perspective of retaining winning chances for White but also as a line which is meaty enough to provide some good food for analysis which - other than to crush the French Defense of course - is the main purpose of this game.

However, if anyone can suggest an improvement for White in Watson's line cited above...

...like Ross Perot, I'm all ears.


  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #51 - 07/17/06 at 02:27:23
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Nature Abhors a Vacuum Cleaner!







(Just ask my dog and cats.  I got the quote from a "Mother Goose and Grimm" comic strip.)
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #50 - 07/17/06 at 02:23:55
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I love the thought that the merest threat of "the vacuum" has White scrambling for alternatives!
  
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MNb
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5
Reply #49 - 07/17/06 at 01:26:41
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986 wrote on 07/16/06 at 20:58:49:
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5 9.Be2?! [ 9.Qd2 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Bxd4 11.Qxd4 Qb6 12.Qxb6 see your last analyse diagramm] 9...0-0 10.Qd2 Nxd4 11.Bxd4 Bxd4 12.Qxd4 Qb6 What's the difference to 9.Qd2?



The difference is, that this endgame is more difficult for Black exactly because he has castled. I the pure Vacuum Cleaner Variation Black often plays both rooks to the king's wing and starts an attack with g5. One example:

Nunn,J (2600) - Gurevitsj,M (2645) [C11]
Hoogovens Wijk aan Zee (5), 1990
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5 9.Qd2 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Bxd4 11.Qxd4 Qb6 12.Qxb6 Nxb6 13.Nb5 Ke7 14.Nd4 Bd7 15.Bd3 Na4 16.0–0–0 Nc5 17.Kd2 g5 18.fxg5 Rag8 19.h4 h6 20.Nf3 hxg5 21.hxg5 Rxh1 22.Rxh1 Ne4+ 23.Ke3 Nxg5 24.Rh5 Nxf3 25.gxf3 Bc6 26.Rh4 Rg5 27.f4 Rg1 28.b3 Rg3+ 29.Kd4 Rf3 ˝–˝

This obviously does not work after 9.Be2 0-0 10.Qd2 etcetera. If saccing the b-pawn does not work (I don't know), then I advise 9.Be2.
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #48 - 07/16/06 at 21:15:34
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Thanks for the heads-up!   

I had thought that gambit wasn't quite playable for White.  Now I'm going to have to re-evaluate it.  Speelman's notes in particular are crisp and to the point.  (He usually gives too much information for the average reader, but I haven't seen his Observer column before.)

This is pretty fresh stuff, being less than a month old!  I feel like we're playing with some pretty sharp knives here.
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #47 - 07/16/06 at 21:05:58
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I found an annotated version of the game provided by 986:

In his chess column for The Observer Jonathan Speelman writes:

"Presumably tired after the tough Bosna tournament in Sarajevo in which he tied for first with Liviu-Dieter Nisipeanu and Vladimir Malakhov, Carlsen delayed playing in Turin until the sixth of the 13 rounds but then appeared in the last eight straight. His clock handling was particularly impressive - and disconcerting for his opponents: after the opening he'd often accrued more time through the 30 second increments than the 90 minutes he began with! Carlsen began in Turin with this very impressive victory against a Venezuelan IM."

Magnus Carlsen v Raphael Prasca 
Turin Olympiad 2006 (round 6) 
Classical French 
[Speelman]

1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 e5 Nfd7 5 f4 c5 6 Nf3 Nc6 7 Be3 cxd4 8 Nxd4 Bc5 9 Qd2 Nxd4 10 Bxd4 Bxd4 11 Qxd4 Qb6 In this line Black aims for an ending in which he's slightly worse but can hope to undertake damage limitation but Carlsen was having none of it opting instead for a dangerous gambit. 

12 Qd2 Qxb2 13 Rb1 Qa3 14 Nb5 Qxa2 15 Nd6+ Ke7 16 Rc1 For the two pawns White has a massive knight on d6. 

16...b6 This novelty aims to support the queen on a5. In a game Grischuk v Zvjaginsev in Mainz last year Black tried 16...Qb2 17 Be2 Nc5 18 0-0 Nb3 19 Nf5+ exf5 20 Qb4+ Kd8 but now 21 Rcd1! (21 cxb3 Qxe2 as played was less clear) seems to win. 

17 Be2 Qa5 18 c3 f5 Trying to block the position but cementing the knight on d6. Instead 18....f6 was an attempt to undermine it but after 19 0-0 Qc5+ 20 Kh1 fxe5 21 fxe5 Nxe5 22 Nb5! the steed prances away and Black will be slaughtered in the crossfire. 

19 0-0 Qc5+ 20 Kh1 Nf8 21 g4! Attacking Black's structure. If now 21...exf5 22 f5 opens fire. [edit: presumably Speelman meant 21…fxg4]

21...Bd7 22 gxf5 exf5 23 Bf3 Ng6 23..Be6 is also met by 24 c4

24 c4 d4 Of course if now 25 Bxa8?? Rxa8 Black has is doing fine but White is now able to drive off the enemy queen. 

25 Nb7! Qa3 26 Qxd4 Be6 27 Ra1 Qb3 27...Qb4 28 Rfb1 Qxc4 29 Qd6+ Kf7 30 Rc1 was no better. 

28 Qd6+ Kf7 29 Bd5 Bxd5+ 30 Qxd5+ Ke7 31 Qd6+ Ke8 32 Qe6+ Ne7 33 Nd6+ and with his position utterly smashed Black resigned.

source: http://sport.guardian.co.uk/chess/story/0,,1800457,00.html

Jonathan Speelman on Chess
Sunday June 18, 2006
The Observer

  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
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