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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos (Read 12028 times)
Antillian
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #125 - 03/04/09 at 12:33:29
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I get the impression that Markos has not really deeply studied the Makagonov system to the extent that he may have studied other systems. That is probably why the coverage of the Makagonov is so skimpy. The auhor himself says that he thinks it is a system that can be played largely based on understanding and he uses it more against lower rated players to get them out of their preparation. I think these two factors are reflected in his coverage of the system.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #124 - 03/04/09 at 06:37:41
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FM Carsten Hansen book review by CHESSCAFE.COM:
http://www.chesscafe.com/hansen/hansen.htm

Beat the KID by Jan Markos, Quality Chess 2008, Figurine Algebraic Notation, Paperback, 197pp., $29.95

One of Slovakia’s top players, GM Jan Markos is twenty-three years old and has a current rating of 2577. In Beat the KID he examines three opening variations that, in his opinion, offer White excellent chances of success against the King’s Indian Defense, aka the “KID.” He opens the book as follows: 

“I am not an experienced chess author. However, I am a very passionate reader of chess books. When I was thirteen, I read Averbakh’s entire course on endings, and I read it with pleasure (frankly, my parents were not especially happy about that.) And I am a reasonably strong practical player.

“The book was written to serve both practical and ‘unpractical’ chessplayers. It was written to meet the expectations of those who seek useful advice, but it is also written for those who are looking for beauty an entertainment in chess. Therefore do not be surprised to find a diagram attached to some completely unimportant sub-line: I have never been able to resist the temptation to highlight a unique chess moment. 

“This is a book on a specific opening. From such a book two conflicting qualities are demanded. On the one hand, it should be crammed with exhaustive and reliable information, which is easy to find if needed. On the other hand, it should be structured and intelligible enough to be read from cover to cover like a novel. I was trying to find a compromise between these two demands, although I have to admit that I am a fan of elegant, easy-to-read chess books.”

The material is divided as follows:

Key to symbols used & Bibliography (1 page) 
Foreword – what can be found in this book (2 pages) 
Introduction to the King’s Indian Defence (6 pages) 
Part 1 – The Krasenkow Variation (2 pages) 
Introduction – The Art of Prophylaxis (4 pages) 
Chapters 1-5 (38 pages) 
Conclusion to part 1 (2 pages) 
Part 2 – The Bayonet Variation (2 pages) 
Introduction – An Open Fight (2 pages) 
Chapters 6-13 (62 pages) 
Conclusion to part 2 (2 pages) 
Part 3 – The Classical Variation (2 pages) 
Introduction – Back to the Roots (4 pages) 
Chapters 14-18 (44 pages) 
Conclusion to part 3 (2 pages) 
Epilogue – Sixth and Seventh Move Alternatives (2 pages) 
Chapter 19 – Tying Up Loose Ends (15 pages) 
Index of Annotates Games (1 page) 
Index of Variations (6 pages) 
The three lines covered in this volume are the Krasenkow Variation: 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 Nf3 0-0 6 h3 

The Bayonet Variation: 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 Nf3 0-0 6 Be2 e5 7 0-0 Nc6 8 d5 Ne7 9 b4 

The Classical Variation: 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 Nf3 0-0 6 Be2 e5 7 0-0 Nc6 8 d5 Ne7 9 Ne1 

According to Markos, the first variation was only used occasionally by top players until Krasenkow took it up in the early 1990s and made it a powerful weapon. Krasenkow employed the line in more than seventy games and at one point he was rated over 2700, so his opening ideas should definitely be given due consideration. As you can see from the above list of contents, the author has devoted five theoretical chapters to this line. 

The first of these theoretical chapters is called The Modern Benoni Structure. However, this is a slight misnomer, because the line chosen by Markos: 6…c5 7 d5 e6 8 Bd3 exd5 9 exd5 isn’t a Modern Benoni structure, but simply a Benoni structure. I thoroughly investigated this line as a young player, and I have to say that I found the coverage disappointingly sparse. Aside from the option of 7…b5, in the line after 9 exd5, he only covers 9…Re8+ 10 Be3 Bh6 and 10…Bf5. The former of the two moves is dealt with mostly through explanations to a well-chosen game, but with almost no other game examples; whereas the latter move is only covered through one game from 1990. Yet several other tenth move alternatives for Black aren’t mentioned at all, such as 10…b5, 10…Na6, 10…Nbd7 and particularly 10…Nh5. The latter in particular carries a bit of a punch if White isn’t careful, as evidenced by the following game:

Vladimirov,Evgeny (2525) - Tal,Mihail (2630) 
URS Cup rapid Tallinn 1988 [E90]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 g6 4.Nc3 Bg7 5.e4 0–0 6.Nf3 d6 7.h3 a6 8.a4 e6 9.Bd3 exd5 10.exd5 Re8+ 11.Be3 Nh5 12.0–0 Nd7 13.Qd2 Ne5 14.Nxe5 Rxe5 15.Bh6 Bxh6 16.Qxh6 Bxh3 17.gxh3 Qh4 18.Kh2 Rg5 19.Ne2 Re8 20.Rae1 Rxe2 21.Bxe2 Qf4+ 22.Kh1 Qe4+ 23.f3 Qh4 24.Qxg5 Qxg5 25.Rg1 Qd2 26.Kg2 Nf4+ 27.Kf1 Nxh3 28.Rg4 h5 29.Re4 Qg5 30.Bd1 Qg1+ 31.Ke2 Qf2+ 32.Kd3 Qxb2 0–1

Granted, 7…a6 8 a4 has been inserted, but this continuation is dismissed by Markos without giving any further moves and the above line can be played without 7…a6, but …Nh5 is not covered in either version. It often seems like the author is keeping information from us, such as the comment on page 52, where Black plays a move that Markos admits to being much better than the main line. He writes, “To be honest, I haven’t found any advantage for White after 11…Nb6, but White might try 12 h4 or 12 Be3.” If he wants us to “Beat the KID,” he needs to do better than this!

The Bayonet Variation has been very popular since the mid-1990s. Apparently when, after 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 Nf3 0-0 6 Be2 e5 7 0-0 Nc6 8 d5 Ne7 9 b4 Nh5, Sokolov introduced the rather obvious 10 Re1, allowing White to meet the idea …Nf4 with Bf1, it sparked new interest in this line. In contrast to the previous section, the chapters on this variation are infinitely more detailed and better written. However, Markos still has a tendency to leave a few loose ends, such as when he points out an improvement for Black, but offers nothing for White to counter it.

The chapters on the Classical Variation are the best of the book. There are plenty of insights in the theory and in the prose, where Markos explains the ideas behind the various moves as well as the strategic motifs. In the introduction to the Classical Variation, or the “Kortchnoi” as Markos calls it, he postulates as to why this line isn’t very popular. He first suggests that people “loathe having their king under strong attack. However, many of them do not know that even in the 9.Ne1 line there are safe sub-systems with a very positional character.” The second part of his argument pertains to the use of computers in preparation, in that computers cannot accurately evaluate the positions because of the closed pawn structure. Markos presents the following example:

Kortchnoi-Kasparov, Amsterdam 1991 
Position after Black’s 22…Qf8 

Markos: “You would barely find a computer program which evaluates this position as better for Black. I have conducted a small test using Rybka 3.0. After working the entire night (!) its evaluation was += [small advantage for White]. However, Kasparov claims that White is already much worse, and he is probably right. Black’s attack on the kingside is very strong and is especially difficult to face in a practical game. Kortchnoi lost in just a few moves without committing any serious mistake. Apparently, the computer is wrong. Why? Because it was comparing the incomparable: White’s material advantage on the queenside and Black’s attacking prospects on the other side of the board. It does not understand that the e4-pawn can’t help the white king to survive.” This, of course, leaves you wondering why so few top players consistently employ the King’s Indian as black. 

Overall, this is a decent book, but it is definitely has a few flaws. The point of buying an opening book is to have someone do the hard work for you, by sifting through the relevant material and then explaining the basic ideas and motifs with a fair share of author input. If the author claims to assist you in beating the relevant opening, he must be prepared to deliver a lot more ideas in critical positions, so that you can get the upper hand against opposition that is also familiar with theory. However, in many cases Markos leaves the reader hanging. Even if an author cannot prove an advantage, which will often be the case, then he should at least analyze the position in order to fully prepare the reader. Of course, the reader should always analyze things for themselves to become familiar with the position in question and enhance their overall understanding of the game.

My assessment of this book:  3 out of 5
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #123 - 01/31/09 at 14:43:51
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The book is O.K and food for thought as are all opening books.
If the chapter is "crap" and you have to find improvements/something else then in a strange way it has served an educational purpose.

At least the book is highlighting the ...Qf7 continuation which was off most peoples radar some years ago. Cool

Nelson
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #122 - 01/31/09 at 13:09:08
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Antillian wrote on 01/31/09 at 12:47:57:
I got my copy of the book and I have spent some time on the section on the Makagonov System. I am reasonably pleased. It certainly is enhancing my understanding of this system.  For the Makagonov System, I think this book is a good complement to Grivas. I would recommend reading Markos first and then going on to Grivas. 


In contrast i found this chapter as a crap. Why? You can see here:   
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1231803683

Bayonet section is nnot very impressive also but Korchnoi one is quite good.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #121 - 01/31/09 at 12:47:57
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I got my copy of the book and I have spent some time on the section on the Makagonov System. I am reasonably pleased. It certainly is enhancing my understanding of this system.  For the Makagonov System, I think this book is a good complement to Grivas. I would recommend reading Markos first and then going on to Grivas. 

I can understand some of the criticism leveled at the book. But having spent some time on it, the way I see it is that this is not meant to be a cutting edge theoretical high level book. 

If you have been playing any of these lines as White for some time, and you are thoroughly grounded in the lines, then this book will probably not add a lot of value to you.

However if you are taking up one of these systems for the first time, or even if you have been playing them and have some gaps in your understanding, I think this book will be very useful. And I think the latter applies to many people who are obsessive about theory.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #120 - 01/19/09 at 20:56:10
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This topic is about book by J.Markos. Please post your pseudo-analysis somewhere else.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #119 - 01/19/09 at 19:43:53
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Fritz couldn't find equality in one of the main lines: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5 5.Nd2 dxc4 6.Nxc4 O-O 7.e3 Bf5 8.Nf3 Nc6 9.a3 a6 10.Be2 Qc8 11.O-O Rd8 12.Qc1 h6 13.h3 Ne4 14.Nh2 b5 15.Nd2 Nxd2 16.Qxd2 e5 17.Bf3 e4 18.Be2 +/=sloughter wrote on 01/19/09 at 16:27:38:
White can always win the battle for the tempo here i.e. he can compel Black to play the capture dxc4 before Black can make him play cxd5 e.g. according to you 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5 5.Nd2 a5 6.bxa5! Rxa5 7.Bc3! (gaining a tempo as I define time with the hit on the Rook). If 7...Ra3? 8.Qc1 Ra8 (Where else?). In the Queen's Gambit Declined, there is the battle over forcing White to move his King Bishop before Black captures on c4. Here you will note that Black always loses the battle for the tempo because White can make unlimited developing moves without have to play cxd5 e.g. 7...Ra3 8.Qc1 Ra8 9.e3/Nf3/Be2/O-O +/=etc. Stigma wrote on 01/19/09 at 15:35:59:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5! A good move, switching to an active Grünfeld setup now that white has played so many moves on the flank. 5.Nd2?! Obviously protecting the pawn, but the knight doesn't look so good on d2 if Black refuses to capture. (5.e3 followed by a quick Nf3 and Be2 may be playable) 5...a5! why not get this in before White can restrain it. 6.a3?! (After 6.b5 c6 Black certainly has no problems and White's bishop looks bad on b2.) 6...dxc4 Black exchanges now that he can attack a weak pawn on b4. 7.Nxc4 axb4 8.axb4 Rxa1 9.Bxa1 Qd5!? 10.e3 0-0 11.Nf3 Nc6. =+ Black has an annoying initiative.

sloughter wrote on 01/19/09 at 13:29:17:
The whole point of Universal Chess is to get an advantage and then switch over immediately to Classical chess.

Classical chess masters from Morphy to the post-war Soviets, who are still mainstays of the middlegame books, were actually right on a lot of things.

Some basic philosopy of science: A new theory needs to supercede the old one, not merely replace it. That is, your theory must take into account and explain everything that was right about the old theory. If it doesn't, your new ideas will fail time and again to already well-known objections. This is precisely what is happening in this thread.

If your theory neglects development, initiative and weak pawns you will be punished by "classical" counter-attacks before you ever find the time to "switch over". 

You will find many exceptions where GMs like Karpov or Seirawan got away with taking lots of space at the cost of development. But they can do this (only in the right positions) because they are deep, prophylactic players who consider all their opponents' attempts at counter-attack well in advance and have concrete answers ready. Sometimes even the great Karpov failed miserably, as in the Sämisch KID game TopNotch quoted.


  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #118 - 01/19/09 at 16:27:38
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White can always win the battle for the tempo here i.e. he can compel Black to play the capture dxc4 before Black can make him play cxd5 e.g. according to you 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5 5.Nd2 a5 6.bxa5! Rxa5 7.Bc3! (gaining a tempo as I define time with the hit on the Rook). If 7...Ra3? 8.Qc1 Ra8 (Where else?). In the Queen's Gambit Declined, there is the battle over forcing White to move his King Bishop before Black captures on c4. Here you will note that Black always loses the battle for the tempo because White can make unlimited developing moves without have to play cxd5 e.g. 7...Ra3 8.Qc1 Ra8 9.e3/Nf3/Be2/O-O +/=etc. Stigma wrote on 01/19/09 at 15:35:59:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5! A good move, switching to an active Grünfeld setup now that white has played so many moves on the flank. 5.Nd2?! Obviously protecting the pawn, but the knight doesn't look so good on d2 if Black refuses to capture. (5.e3 followed by a quick Nf3 and Be2 may be playable) 5...a5! why not get this in before White can restrain it. 6.a3?! (After 6.b5 c6 Black certainly has no problems and White's bishop looks bad on b2.) 6...dxc4 Black exchanges now that he can attack a weak pawn on b4. 7.Nxc4 axb4 8.axb4 Rxa1 9.Bxa1 Qd5!? 10.e3 0-0 11.Nf3 Nc6. =+ Black has an annoying initiative.

sloughter wrote on 01/19/09 at 13:29:17:
The whole point of Universal Chess is to get an advantage and then switch over immediately to Classical chess.

Classical chess masters from Morphy to the post-war Soviets, who are still mainstays of the middlegame books, were actually right on a lot of things.

Some basic philosopy of science: A new theory needs to supercede the old one, not merely replace it. That is, your theory must take into account and explain everything that was right about the old theory. If it doesn't, your new ideas will fail time and again to already well-known objections. This is precisely what is happening in this thread.

If your theory neglects development, initiative and weak pawns you will be punished by "classical" counter-attacks before you ever find the time to "switch over". 

You will find many exceptions where GMs like Karpov or Seirawan got away with taking lots of space at the cost of development. But they can do this (only in the right positions) because they are deep, prophylactic players who consider all their opponents' attempts at counter-attack well in advance and have concrete answers ready. Sometimes even the great Karpov failed miserably, as in the Sämisch KID game TopNotch quoted.

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #117 - 01/19/09 at 15:35:59
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1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5! A good move, switching to an active Grünfeld setup now that white has played so many moves on the flank. 5.Nd2?! Obviously protecting the pawn, but the knight doesn't look so good on d2 if Black refuses to capture. (5.e3 followed by a quick Nf3 and Be2 may be playable) 5...a5! why not get this in before White can restrain it. 6.a3?! (After 6.b5 c6 Black certainly has no problems and White's bishop looks bad on b2.) 6...dxc4 Black exchanges now that he can attack a weak pawn on b4. 7.Nxc4 axb4 8.axb4 Rxa1 9.Bxa1 Qd5!? 10.e3 0-0 11.Nf3 Nc6. =+ Black has an annoying initiative.

sloughter wrote on 01/19/09 at 13:29:17:
The whole point of Universal Chess is to get an advantage and then switch over immediately to Classical chess.

Classical chess masters from Morphy to the post-war Soviets, who are still mainstays of the middlegame books, were actually right on a lot of things.

Some basic philosopy of science: A new theory needs to supercede the old one, not merely replace it. That is, your theory must take into account and explain everything that was right about the old theory. If it doesn't, your new ideas will fail time and again to already well-known objections. This is precisely what is happening in this thread.

If your theory neglects development, initiative and weak pawns you will be punished by "classical" counter-attacks before you ever find the time to "switch over". 

You will find many exceptions where GMs like Karpov or Seirawan got away with taking lots of space at the cost of development. But they can do this (only in the right positions) because they are deep, prophylactic players who consider all their opponents' attempts at counter-attack well in advance and have concrete answers ready. Sometimes even the great Karpov failed miserably, as in the Sämisch KID game TopNotch quoted.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #116 - 01/19/09 at 13:29:17
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Gentlemen, you are right, White must improve on move order but keep the idea i.e. 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.b4! (To restrain c5) Bg7 4.Bb2 d5 5.Nd2! dxc4 6.Nxc4 O-O 7.e3! Bf5 8.Nf3 (The whole point of Universal Chess is to get an advantage and then switch over immediately to Classical chess. White restrains a5, b5, and e5. 8...Nc6 9.a3 +/=Stigma wrote on 01/19/09 at 00:43:59:
Moody-Fritz 8 120/1 King's Indian Sloughter Variation
[Annotator: Stigma]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4?! White shows his plan too early; he should secure his centre and find a good piece arrangment first. b4 might be a good space grab later on, but it's useful to have the options of 0-0-0 or protecting c4 with b2-b3 in some variations. (6.f3 and 6.Ng3 both lead to interesting, unclear play) 6...c5! 7.Rb1 cxb4!? Black wants to play against the weakened pawns on d4 and c4. White now has to be very careful. [7...cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nc6 is also good, with a Maroczy Bind position where White is lagging in development and struggles to get his pieces out safely] 8.Rxb4 Nc6 9.Rb1 h6?! 10.f3 Nd7! 11.g3? (11.Be3 Nb6 12.Qd3 is very clumsy but should be tried, although black is still better.) 11...Nb6 12.h3? Nxc4 Black has an extra pawn, a weak square on c4, a big lead in development, the more compact pawn structure and the safer king. This adds up to a clear, probably winning advantage for black. 13.Bg2 Rb8 14.O-O b5 15.Kh2 b4 16.Nd5 Ba6 17.Rf2 Qa5 White has failed to find any compensation for the pawn and with the black pieces getting active on the queenside, the game is over. -+

White is too preoccupied with his space advantage and open file in this game. According to classical chess strategy you should put much more emphasis on development, weak squares, king safety, and counterattack against a big center. Since you mentioned Silman earlier I sincerely recommend his book "How to Reassess your Chess" and particularly the chapters on development, weak squares and "the dark side of space". Pachman's or Euwe/Kramer's middlegame books would do fine too.

Even if you want to create a new theory built around space you can't just pretend basic needs of a position like development, king safety, material, solid pawn structure and tactical shots don't exist; they must be part of your theories and certainly your play. And what's the point of playing so quickly against Fritz 8 - a GM strength opponent after all?!

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #115 - 01/19/09 at 04:16:18
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6.b4 c5 7.Rb1 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nc6 (Fritz 8) 9.Nc2 Be6 10.Ne3 Rc8 11.Ned5 Ne5 12.Qb3 unclear sloughter wrote on 01/19/09 at 03:26:18:
Here's a forcing line in the one of the main lines in the Sloughter Variation that leads to advantage White (recommended by that weakie Frita 8) 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Qb6 9.f3! Nxe4? 10.Nd5 Bxd4 11.Nxb6 Bf2ch 12.Ke2 Nc3ch 13.Kd2 Nxd1 14.Nxa8+/- If Black avoids 9...Nxe4, White has Be3 e.g. 9.f3 a5 10.Be3 unclearsloughter wrote on 01/17/09 at 03:02:15:
"No one plays the Queen Bishop to b6". Hmm Lets see. If I play d5 and f3, the Queen Bishop can't go to e6, f5, g4, or h3. It is indeed powerfully placed on d7. or, perhaps, you intend to play Bd7/Be8/Bf7?
By the way I am confused---which one of us is undermining the center, b4 or c5? As far as your idea of "weakening the long diagonal", what is the Bishop doing on g7 when there is no pawn on b2 or a Rook on a1? Of what use is your King Bishop for attacking purposes? And you never suggest what Black is going to do with his Kingside---attack?? Attack what? If I play with the idea of taking away all your counterplay on the Kingside, what are your long term plans? You ignore the fact that you have lost the critical undermining tool in this variation, c6. Perhaps you should look at a board. I can improve on b5 with just the simple 7.Rb1 Nc6 8.bxc5 dxc5 9.d5 Ne5 10.Ng3 b6 (What else?) 11.f4 +-, or, 9.d5 Na5 10.Qd3 b6 11.f3 Ba6 12.Nb5 Qd7 13.a4 Threat---g3/h3/Rh2/Rf2/Bg2/Kf1/f4/e5+- This is the kind of pattern I would recognize in a blitz game.


mangler wrote on 01/16/09 at 12:00:13:
I have been trying not to comment on this thread, but this is too much....

Here is your line: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1

Do you really think that cxb4 is best that black has, and that Black will have to play b6 and Bb7??? News flash, no King's indian player ever thinks of developing the queen bishop to b7. Maybe a queen's indian player, but even those guys stick it on a6 half the time.

I think you missed the whole point of 6...c5, which was to attack and undermine the center. Why would black want to trade the c pawn for the b pawn?? 7...cd4 is 1 obvious improvement. And on your proposed 7...Nc6 8.b5 then 8...Nxd4 seems even better for black. Keep in mind I am not looking at this on a board, just the one in my head. 

There are basic principles in play here, and a reading of virtually any King's Indian book (starting out, mastering the KID, Bronstein on the KID, etc) will help you realize that. 

Good luck with your studies. 



  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #114 - 01/19/09 at 03:52:43
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Quote:
Here's a forcing line in the one of the main lines in the Sloughter Variation that leads to advantage White (recommended by that weakie Frita 8) 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Qb6 9.f3! Nxe4? 10.Nd5 Bxd4 11.Nxb6 Bf2ch 12.Ke2 Nc3ch 13.Kd2 Nxd1 14.Nxa8+/- If Black avoids 9...Nxe4, White has Be3 e.g. 9.f3 a5 10.Be3 unclearsloughter wrote on Jan 17th, 2009, 3:02am:


Until you find a way for White to equalize against 7...cxb4 this is all rather irrelevant isn't it?  Secondly Black has better moves at almost every turn.  Even the rather obvious 10...Qxd4 probably leaves Black on the better side of approximate equality.   

I really don't understand your persistence with this sloughter.  I'm sure Fritz 8 isn't recommending all of these moves as best.  What's the point of showing how things might go well against inferior moves?  I really don't want to be mean here but it really looks like you just like the attention even if that attention is negative.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #113 - 01/19/09 at 03:26:18
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Here's a forcing line in the one of the main lines in the Sloughter Variation that leads to advantage White (recommended by that weakie Frita 8) 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Qb6 9.f3! Nxe4? 10.Nd5 Bxd4 11.Nxb6 Bf2ch 12.Ke2 Nc3ch 13.Kd2 Nxd1 14.Nxa8+/- If Black avoids 9...Nxe4, White has Be3 e.g. 9.f3 a5 10.Be3 unclearsloughter wrote on 01/17/09 at 03:02:15:
"No one plays the Queen Bishop to b6". Hmm Lets see. If I play d5 and f3, the Queen Bishop can't go to e6, f5, g4, or h3. It is indeed powerfully placed on d7. or, perhaps, you intend to play Bd7/Be8/Bf7?
By the way I am confused---which one of us is undermining the center, b4 or c5? As far as your idea of "weakening the long diagonal", what is the Bishop doing on g7 when there is no pawn on b2 or a Rook on a1? Of what use is your King Bishop for attacking purposes? And you never suggest what Black is going to do with his Kingside---attack?? Attack what? If I play with the idea of taking away all your counterplay on the Kingside, what are your long term plans? You ignore the fact that you have lost the critical undermining tool in this variation, c6. Perhaps you should look at a board. I can improve on b5 with just the simple 7.Rb1 Nc6 8.bxc5 dxc5 9.d5 Ne5 10.Ng3 b6 (What else?) 11.f4 +-, or, 9.d5 Na5 10.Qd3 b6 11.f3 Ba6 12.Nb5 Qd7 13.a4 Threat---g3/h3/Rh2/Rf2/Bg2/Kf1/f4/e5+- This is the kind of pattern I would recognize in a blitz game.


mangler wrote on 01/16/09 at 12:00:13:
I have been trying not to comment on this thread, but this is too much....

Here is your line: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1

Do you really think that cxb4 is best that black has, and that Black will have to play b6 and Bb7??? News flash, no King's indian player ever thinks of developing the queen bishop to b7. Maybe a queen's indian player, but even those guys stick it on a6 half the time.

I think you missed the whole point of 6...c5, which was to attack and undermine the center. Why would black want to trade the c pawn for the b pawn?? 7...cd4 is 1 obvious improvement. And on your proposed 7...Nc6 8.b5 then 8...Nxd4 seems even better for black. Keep in mind I am not looking at this on a board, just the one in my head. 

There are basic principles in play here, and a reading of virtually any King's Indian book (starting out, mastering the KID, Bronstein on the KID, etc) will help you realize that. 

Good luck with your studies. 


  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #112 - 01/19/09 at 00:43:59
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Moody-Fritz 8 120/1 King's Indian Sloughter Variation
[Annotator: Stigma]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4?! White shows his plan too early; he should secure his centre and find a good piece arrangment first. b4 might be a good space grab later on, but it's useful to have the options of 0-0-0 or protecting c4 with b2-b3 in some variations. (6.f3 and 6.Ng3 both lead to interesting, unclear play) 6...c5! 7.Rb1 cxb4!? Black wants to play against the weakened pawns on d4 and c4. White now has to be very careful. [7...cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nc6 is also good, with a Maroczy Bind position where White is lagging in development and struggles to get his pieces out safely] 8.Rxb4 Nc6 9.Rb1 h6?! 10.f3 Nd7! 11.g3? (11.Be3 Nb6 12.Qd3 is very clumsy but should be tried, although black is still better.) 11...Nb6 12.h3? Nxc4 Black has an extra pawn, a weak square on c4, a big lead in development, the more compact pawn structure and the safer king. This adds up to a clear, probably winning advantage for black. 13.Bg2 Rb8 14.O-O b5 15.Kh2 b4 16.Nd5 Ba6 17.Rf2 Qa5 White has failed to find any compensation for the pawn and with the black pieces getting active on the queenside, the game is over. -+

White is too preoccupied with his space advantage and open file in this game. According to classical chess strategy you should put much more emphasis on development, weak squares, king safety, and counterattack against a big center. Since you mentioned Silman earlier I sincerely recommend his book "How to Reassess your Chess" and particularly the chapters on development, weak squares and "the dark side of space". Pachman's or Euwe/Kramer's middlegame books would do fine too.

Even if you want to create a new theory built around space you can't just pretend basic needs of a position like development, king safety, material, solid pawn structure and tactical shots don't exist; they must be part of your theories and certainly your play. And what's the point of playing so quickly against Fritz 8 - a GM strength opponent after all?!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #111 - 01/18/09 at 23:20:08
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Seriously Sloughter, whom are you kidding here?
Your claim that white is winning after Nxc4 because he has achieved a favorable Morra gambit is the dumbest assesment I've ever seen on this site. White is completely lost, and if you're really serious about the stuff you write then there's your explanation why your rating is 1600. Once you abandon those illusions your rating will improve.

I guess if black plays in typical KID style after 9. Rb1 e5 10. d5 Nd4 11. f3 Nh5 12. Be3 f5 then the white king can get in trouble rather quickly.
  
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