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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Tarrasch in Black and White (Read 60864 times)
Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #372 - 03/16/11 at 13:39:57
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Patience my friend!  Smiley We are going to cover everything besides 1.e4, yes. At present i haven't get my hands on things like 1.f4, 1.g4, 1.b4 etc but after 1.c4 and 1.Nf3 we already have our lines. I don't know to what extend readers would be interested to get recommendations against more rare first moves. I would be interested very much of everybody's thoughts and suggestions on that. For example, in my life i have only once faced 1.b3 in a tournament game and this was the only rare first move i have ever faced. I reacted classicaly over the board (without any kind of preparation) and i won rather easily. Should the readers want cover of such moves also? I guess that, at least 1.f4 will be covered (i have in my mind a Tarrasch-like solution) and also 1.b3 because we can use again a Tarrasch set-up. Ideas for other moves?
  
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BabySnake
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #371 - 03/16/11 at 09:14:47
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Ametanoitos wrote on 03/15/11 at 17:59:02:
BabySnake wrote on 03/15/11 at 14:14:28:

Perhaps this is discussed for example in "Meeting 1.d4" by Aagard and Lund? I don't have that book yet.


This will be discussed in "GM Rep: The Tarrasch" by Aagaard and Ntirlis for sure! By the way, i think it is probably a good time to make a seperate thread on the Tarrasch. This one is heavily loaded already and in a seperate thread about the book we can discuss other things also.


Yes, I gathered it would be, but I can't get my hands on that book just yet! Smiley
But I very much look forward to it.

Out of interest, will you also the cover the Schara-Hennig gambit?

And for my last question, which may have been answered already. Are you planning to provide a repertoire against everything, or almost everything,  but 1.e4? By which I mean at least 1.d4, 1.c4 and 1.Nf3.

I find GM9 project very exciting and hope you will excuse the questions!
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #370 - 03/15/11 at 17:59:02
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BabySnake wrote on 03/15/11 at 14:14:28:

Perhaps this is discussed for example in "Meeting 1.d4" by Aagard and Lund? I don't have that book yet.


This will be discussed in "GM Rep: The Tarrasch" by Aagaard and Ntirlis for sure! By the way, i think it is probably a good time to make a seperate thread on the Tarrasch. This one is heavily loaded already and in a seperate thread about the book we can discuss other things also.
  
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Markovich
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #369 - 03/15/11 at 14:22:37
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1...e6 is correct, and for the reason you state.  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Nf3 Nf6?! because of 6.Bg5 intending e2-e4 is an opinion widely shared.  Correct is 5...Nc6.
  

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BabySnake
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #368 - 03/15/11 at 14:14:28
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A quick question on move orders when using the Tarrasch as a universal weapon against everything but 1.e4.

Vs 1. Nf3 I guess 1...d5 is pretty obivous.

However vs 1. c4 I would think 1...e6 followed up by 2...d5 is best rather than 1...Nf6. Because black doesn't want to develop the king's knight too early in the Tarrasch?
Or maybe black should play 1...c5 and if 2.Nf3 e6 3. d4 then 3...d5.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each first move for black, in your opinion?

Perhaps this is discussed for example in "Meeting 1.d4" by Aagard and Lund? I don't have that book yet.
  
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Markovich
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #367 - 03/06/11 at 15:50:26
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kylemeister wrote on 03/06/11 at 04:04:09:
Markovich wrote on 03/06/11 at 02:05:19:

Keres played this against Tal, by transposition, and won the game.  He expressed the opinion that Black is fine in the line where Black doesn't accept the pawn.  I studied the pawn sac rather deeply when I was about 25 years old, and once or twice since then, and reluctantly concluded that Black doesn't have enough comp.  I would provisionally maintain the same view now.  Either White is better accepting the pawn, or 100 years of Tarrasch theory should be thrown out, since this is clearly the best way to play the Tarrasch if the gambit yields sufficient comp.  You know, they say that if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.


Well then, I wonder how Keres differed with ECO, which (including in the first edition, in which the relevant section was written by Larsen, and which came out when you were in your twenties ...) has thought that White should get a clear advantage with 10. 0-0 (as in the games mentioned at #360). 


Since it was a transpo, I'm not sure he was talking about the full-blown gambit from move seven.  It's in his collected games.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #366 - 03/06/11 at 04:04:09
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Markovich wrote on 03/06/11 at 02:05:19:

Keres played this against Tal, by transposition, and won the game.  He expressed the opinion that Black is fine in the line where Black doesn't accept the pawn.  I studied the pawn sac rather deeply when I was about 25 years old, and once or twice since then, and reluctantly concluded that Black doesn't have enough comp.  I would provisionally maintain the same view now.  Either White is better accepting the pawn, or 100 years of Tarrasch theory should be thrown out, since this is clearly the best way to play the Tarrasch if the gambit yields sufficient comp.  You know, they say that if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.


Well then, I wonder how Keres differed with ECO, which (including in the first edition, in which the relevant section was written by Larsen, and which came out when you were in your twenties ...) has thought that White should get a clear advantage with 10. 0-0 (as in the games mentioned at #360).
  
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Markovich
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #365 - 03/06/11 at 02:05:19
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kylemeister wrote on 03/05/11 at 15:56:08:
alyechin wrote on 03/05/11 at 06:56:42:

Is accepting the gambit in the line with Nc3 risky?


It has been thought that Black gets compensation in the case of 9. Nb3 Bb6 10. Nxd5 Nxd5 11. Qxd5, and an edge in the case of 11. Bxd5.


Keres played this against Tal, by transposition, and won the game.  He expressed the opinion that Black is fine in the line where Black doesn't accept the pawn.  I studied the pawn sac rather deeply when I was about 25 years old, and once or twice since then, and reluctantly concluded that Black doesn't have enough comp.  I would provisionally maintain the same view now.  Either White is better accepting the pawn, or 100 years of Tarrasch theory should be thrown out, since this is clearly the best way to play the Tarrasch if the gambit yields sufficient comp.  You know, they say that if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #364 - 03/05/11 at 15:56:08
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alyechin wrote on 03/05/11 at 06:56:42:

Is accepting the gambit in the line with Nc3 risky?


It has been thought that Black gets compensation in the case of 9. Nb3 Bb6 10. Nxd5 Nxd5 11. Qxd5, and an edge in the case of 11. Bxd5.
  
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alyechin
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #363 - 03/05/11 at 06:56:42
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kylemeister wrote on 03/04/11 at 21:22:43:
Oops -- Avrukh actually played Nxc6 in a different position (with 0-0 in instead of Nc3), which looks like a better environment for it (though it is still a significant possibility in the Nc3 version).


Is accepting the gambit in the line with Nc3 risky?
  
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kylemeister
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #362 - 03/04/11 at 21:22:43
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Oops -- Avrukh actually played Nxc6 in a different position (with 0-0 in instead of Nc3), which looks like a better environment for it (though it is still a significant possibility in the Nc3 version).
  
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alyechin
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #361 - 03/04/11 at 20:28:57
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kylemeister wrote on 03/04/11 at 17:19:10:
alyechin wrote on 03/04/11 at 14:03:28:
What's about the "Improved Tarrasch": 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c5 4 cd ed 5 Nf3 Nc6 6 g3 Nf6 7 Bg2 cd 8 Nd4: Bc5  9 Nb3 Bb6 ? (Suggested by Tarrasch himself)


I notice that ECO thinks that should be clearly better for White; it cites Rubinstein-Spielmann, Karlovy Vary 1923 and Rashkin-Klaman, USSR 1973.  (It thinks 9...Bb4, transposing to a line of the English, is better, but still slightly better for White.)  Incidentally Avrukh played 9. Nxc6 in the game I referred to at #357.


So you can say 9 Nb3 is a slide error?
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #360 - 03/04/11 at 17:19:10
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alyechin wrote on 03/04/11 at 14:03:28:
What's about the "Improved Tarrasch": 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c5 4 cd ed 5 Nf3 Nc6 6 g3 Nf6 7 Bg2 cd 8 Nd4: Bc5  9 Nb3 Bb6 ? (Suggested by Tarrasch himself)


I notice that ECO thinks that should be clearly better for White; it cites Rubinstein-Spielmann, Karlovy Vary 1923 and Rashkin-Klaman, USSR 1973.  (It thinks 9...Bb4, transposing to a line of the English, is better, but still slightly better for White.)  Incidentally Avrukh played 9. Nxc6 in the game I referred to at #357.
  
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alyechin
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #359 - 03/04/11 at 14:03:28
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What's about the "Improved Tarrasch": 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c5 4 cd ed 5 Nf3 Nc6 6 g3 Nf6 7 Bg2 cd 8 Nd4: Bc5  9 Nb3 Bb6 ? (Suggested by Tarrasch himself)
  
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raja
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #358 - 03/04/11 at 01:57:15
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Recently i am preparing for my first tournament and i have based my repertoire on 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.dxc5! which seems to promise advantage for white in all cases except the one where black plays 6.d4 Na4 b5! 7.cxb6 axb6 now black seems to have some compensation for the pawn....the book move continues with 8.b3 but i have found a novelty here with 8. e4! and i think this is enough to play for a win against my unprepared opponent. Cheesy
« Last Edit: 03/04/11 at 08:16:26 by raja »  
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