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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Tarrasch in Black and White (Read 60841 times)
Daniel
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #522 - 12/24/11 at 23:49:55
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The most exact way to exploit white's setup seems to be the rather odd but logical when you think about it Bb3-a4 and maybe to b5 manuever, shoving your bishop into white's queenside holes, eg:

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c5 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. g3 Nf6 7. Bg2 Be7 8. O-O O-O 9. dxc5 Bxc5 10. a3 Ne4 11. Qc2 Nxc3 12. Qxc3 Bb6 13. b4 d4 14. Qd2 Re8 15. Bb2 Be6! 16. Rad1 Bb3 17. Rc1 Ba4 and black should be okay.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #521 - 12/24/11 at 20:50:09
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12...Bb6 was what I had in my file on 10. a3 that I put together in late October. Black seemed fine to me (didn't even bother analyzing 12...Be7 as a result  Grin).
  

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Daniel
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #520 - 12/24/11 at 20:12:36
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No but that line is in several computer theory books for white such as bookbuilder(c) on the ICC
  
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Roger Williamson
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #519 - 12/24/11 at 13:35:13
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I had that exact line, 10. a3 Ne4 11. Qc2 Nxc3 12. Qc3 Be7 13. Nd4 played against me in an online blitz game this week.  It wasn't you as White, was it Daniel?

Anyway, it was fortunate. I'd browsed that chapter first, interested to see the antidote to 10. a3, which I've suffered against in the past, and after this last experience and subsequent tinkering, I'd concur that 10... Bb6 is less unpleasant.  I'd still be more than grateful to read your unpublished notes on 10... Be7, however, Ametanoitos.  After reading that note I only speculated as to what might happen after 13. Be3 (which doesn't seem like anything after ... Bf6), rather than the immediate 13. Nd4.

Only reading this book am I aware of the myriad reasons I've been playing the Tarrasch so badly over the years...
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #518 - 12/24/11 at 13:18:46
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Ametanoitos, 
Who are the modern heroes of Tarrash - whose games we can follow to learn the themese? I am asking for post Spassky-Kasparov era.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #517 - 12/24/11 at 08:39:53
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Daniel wrote on 12/24/11 at 01:02:00:
Okay I found a small hole: 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c5 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. g3 Nf6 7. Bg2 Be7 8. O-O O-O 9. dxc5 Bxc5 10. a3 Ne4 11. Qc2 Nxc3 12. Qc3 Be7 intending Bf6 and d4 is given as okay for black in the book but 13. Nd4 Nxd4 14. Qxd4 Be6 15. Bf4! Bf6 16. Be5 Bxe5 17. Qxe5 pleasant for white.

12...Bb6 is better, ie 13. b4 d4 14. Qd2 (14. Qd3 Qf6 15. Bg5 Qf5=) Be6 15. Bb2 Re8 unclear.


I remember looking at this "12...Bb6 or 12...Be7" issue a lot and for sure i looked at the position you refer to as "unpleasant". I haven't acess to my original files now to see what i analyzed, but for starters i don't see something wrong with 12...Bb6 as you state. You are right that we should give at least a line here to demonstrate hw the game could develop, as we do in the whole book.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #516 - 12/24/11 at 03:49:20
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I am reading Chapter 7 on 16. Rc1! and the explanations are quite insightful. To be honest I would never fathomed the Tarrasch to experience a revival until this book. Perhaps Morozevich will start playing it and cause an increase in popularity, except probably a more sustainable one than he did with the Albin and Chigorin.
  

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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #515 - 12/24/11 at 01:02:00
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Okay I found a small hole: 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c5 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. g3 Nf6 7. Bg2 Be7 8. O-O O-O 9. dxc5 Bxc5 10. a3 Ne4 11. Qc2 Nxc3 12. Qc3 Be7 intending Bf6 and d4 is given as okay for black in the book but 13. Nd4 Nxd4 14. Qxd4 Be6 15. Bf4! Bf6 16. Be5 Bxe5 17. Qxe5 pleasant for white.

12...Bb6 is better, ie 13. b4 d4 14. Qd2 (14. Qd3 Qf6 15. Bg5 Qf5=) Be6 15. Bb2 Re8 unclear.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #514 - 12/23/11 at 16:04:47
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BabySnake wrote on 12/23/11 at 13:48:30:
Quote:

Also, White can avoid the Tarrasch by playing 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 of course.


Err....no..... Cheesy

He might play 3.dxc5 though.
sorry, no, he can't play 3.d5, it should be dxc5! 

I think this has been dealt with in A killer chess opening repertoire, and possibly Win with the London system, but for the White side.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #513 - 12/23/11 at 14:09:03
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Emary, I really like your 2...c5 (after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3). I'm not too afraid of the Reversed Noteboom and 3.Bf4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 f6!? is interesting enough as well. 

So I guess the only thing left is find something against 3.e3, but at least there is no more London 
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #512 - 12/23/11 at 13:48:30
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Quote:

Also, White can avoid the Tarrasch by playing 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 of course.


Err....no..... Cheesy

He might play 3.dxc5 though.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #511 - 12/23/11 at 13:39:13
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 12/23/11 at 05:33:26:
Do not the chess book shops in the Netherlands post to Surinam, like New In Chess or De Beste Zet?

They all do. Via unreliable Surpost. See it this way: it saves me from buying more opening books than I can digest.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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fling
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #510 - 12/23/11 at 13:31:36
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Ametanoitos wrote on 12/23/11 at 13:20:10:
Yes, we can discuss that in the foroum but don't forget that there will be out soon a book from Avrukh that will deal with stuff like that. Also Jacob mentioned a couple of things in the QC last newsletter.

As far as the Colle is concerned i always liked the ...e6 lines for Black!


I forgot that Avrukh is working on that book. Smart, now QC get to sell me another book!

The Colle is not that big a problem, it just seems like that the ...e6 lines are what the "normal" Colle player wants, especially in the Colle-Zuckertort. Black is solid, but White gets to play his standard set-up plans, I think, and that is why I have looked at other plans than an early ...e6.

Of course, when I have converted to the Tarrasch, the ...e6-lines may be the way to go  Grin
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #509 - 12/23/11 at 13:20:10
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Yes, we can discuss that in the foroum but don't forget that there will be out soon a book from Avrukh that will deal with stuff like that. Also Jacob mentioned a couple of things in the QC last newsletter.

As far as the Colle is concerned i always liked the ...e6 lines for Black!
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #508 - 12/23/11 at 11:42:36
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emary wrote on 12/23/11 at 09:31:53:
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 is also possible and maybe more in the spirit of the Tarrasch! 
But you should be well prepared, because White gets some sharp extra options with that moveorder. For instance he can play it like a Noteboom with reversed colours and the game could become very sharp. 

But 2...e6 is not at all bad and you have some extra options against Queens-Pawn openings too: 
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4 Bd6,  
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 f5.


The only thing I don't like with an early ...e6 is against the Colle systems. Not terrible, but seems a bit more passive than to leave the pawn on e7 in order to keep the diagonal open for the bishop (c8-h3). On the other hand, I like challenging the London with an early ...c5, but usually will play the pawn to e6. I guess I have to learn some of the lines in Dealing with d4-deviations (QID-type set-ups). 

Also, White can avoid the Tarrasch by playing 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 of course.

I would say that after just going briefly over the book, the main thing missing is more pages Grin! It would be nice with some mentioning of these early deviations for White, especially as the Introduction states that it is hard for White to avoid the Tarrasch. But I guess that is what we can continue to discuss in this thread Smiley
  
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