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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Tarrasch in Black and White (Read 50880 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #162 - 04/02/10 at 11:24:56
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How embarrassing! Embarrassed  You're right, I had white playing 24.bc4 Bd6.  I guess I got distracted by your comment about a double rook ending.  

So, back to the game, 24...Kh6 is indeed the only realistic move.

25.Nf4
And we have this position:

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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #161 - 04/02/10 at 06:51:47
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@Smyslov_fan: you were analysing a wrong position! In our position your bishop is on a3 and not on d6. I don't accept your last move because you were analysing with that bishop on d6.

@TN: It will be aproximately 150 pages. I don't know the publisher because my local Chess Union has responsibility of the publication. I assume they have the men they are working with. My agreement is to produce two books. The first one is this and the other is with training material i have gathered all these years i am a chess coach about the middlegame.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #160 - 04/02/10 at 00:39:58
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And here's my conditional move:

If 27.c5 Bb8 28.Nf4 Bf4 29.gf4 I have a choice to make at that point.

If 27.Nf4 Bf4 28.gf4 and again, I have a choice to make.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #159 - 04/02/10 at 00:32:04
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I'm going to play 26...Kg6 instead of 26...Kh6.  There isn't much difference between the moves, but the king may be better suited to go to f6 than h6 in some lines.  The drawback, and it is a drawback, is that it may take an extra move to clear the g-file in some lines.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #158 - 04/01/10 at 22:02:40
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Ametanoitos wrote on 04/01/10 at 06:47:42:
My chess friends, i have to tell you my "secret". All this time i share with you my interest of the Tarrasch defence is because i write a book on it! The idea was to do some sort of update of the Aagaard book, recommending the Tarrasch as the main defence to 1.d4 and also give recommendations for the other first moves such as 1.c4, 1.Nf3, 1b4! etc...I have done much more work on the popular at club level "d pawn openings" such as the London, the Colle etc and i have tried to study in depth systems like the KIA or the Reti. So, this work has much more details than the Aagaard's book on these lines. It offers only the ...c4 main line and not the ...cxd4, and all these make it very different than the original Aagaard work. My idea was also to offer somekind of "quick repertoire" in the French Defence (which suits the Tarrasch philoshofy well, for example 3.Nd2 c5! or IQP variations against the exch variations and so on) so as to have a complete repertoire book!

The book will be finished at the start of June and will be in Greek, so it would be very difficult for you to read it but i can provide you with every variation you like to ask because i have taken advantage of your kind help and sincere discussions on this foroum and because this is just my character as a person!

Now, as for the Avrukh's recommendation. I think it is one of the times we can say "both sides are happy", this means that White can be happy because he can claim a tiny tiny theoritical edge but Black can also be happy because he has free piece play and many chances to punish inaccurancies by White. In "my book" i offer Watson's recommended improvements along with an Aagaard's line which is 12...Re8 13.Nc5 Bxc5 14.Bxc5 Qd7!? 15.Re1 Rac8 16.Bd4 Ne4= and i add a comment of mine which is: if 16.Nd4 b6 17.Ba3 Nxd4 18.Qxd4 Rxe2. 

Everything in Chess has it's Yin and Yan side. Avrukh's line is good because it is easy to memorise and can bring a slight theoritical edge but OTB there are much many things that can go wrong and lose quickly and you have to play the resulting positions with a great amount of high level technique agains a fairly strong opponent to bring the win home. You have to chose.... I'm currently studying Wojo's book recommendation against the Tarrasch and this also seems to be a nice practical weapon, even though Black has again much more counterplay than the main lines with Bg5+...c4 and my favourite ...h6.


Congratulations! Smiley Smiley

How many pages is the book and which company is publishing it?
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #157 - 04/01/10 at 18:38:55
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If i have an offer by an international publication then i'll translate my book! But for the time being the book will be out for the Greek chessplayers to read. All in all, it is not so difficult to read the Greek notation:
K (King)-> P (Rigas)
Q (Queen)-> B (Basilissa)
R (Rook)-> Π (Pirgos)
Β (Bishop)-> Α (Aksiomatikos)
Ν (Knight)->Ι (Ippos)
but, maybe all these seem Greek to you!

By the way, i'm still waiting for the next move of Smyslov_fan. I have analysed a double rook ending that is likely to happen and i think i'm close to discover the forced win for White. Maybe this game will be on my book also!  Smiley  (If Smyslov_fan agrees)   
 
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #156 - 04/01/10 at 13:28:33
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Ametanoitos wrote on 04/01/10 at 06:47:42:
The book will be finished at the start of June and will be in Greek.

Why? The English of some authors is much worse than yours. If it were only for the chapter on 9.Bg5 c4 ...
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #155 - 04/01/10 at 07:38:22
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Ametanoitos wrote on 04/01/10 at 06:47:42:

Now, as for the Avrukh's recommendation. I think it is one of the times we can say "both sides are happy", this means that White can be happy because he can claim a tiny tiny theoritical edge but Black can also be happy because he has free piece play and many chances to punish inaccurancies by White.


Sounds like you pretty much agree with my +=/<--> assessment, which is fair.

Avrukh's line will appeal to technicians, I'm one of those players that fits into that category, and perhaps it's even best barring white improvements in 9. Bg5 c4. 

Perhaps the greatest appeal of the Tarrasch Defense is a lot of white players aren't comfortable with the nature of the advantage, and it can be recommended against 1. Nf3, 1. c4, and 1. d4.

Good luck with the book, hopefully it does well.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #154 - 04/01/10 at 06:47:42
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My chess friends, i have to tell you my "secret". All this time i share with you my interest of the Tarrasch defence is because i write a book on it! The idea was to do some sort of update of the Aagaard book, recommending the Tarrasch as the main defence to 1.d4 and also give recommendations for the other first moves such as 1.c4, 1.Nf3, 1b4! etc...I have done much more work on the popular at club level "d pawn openings" such as the London, the Colle etc and i have tried to study in depth systems like the KIA or the Reti. So, this work has much more details than the Aagaard's book on these lines. It offers only the ...c4 main line and not the ...cxd4, and all these make it very different than the original Aagaard work. My idea was also to offer somekind of "quick repertoire" in the French Defence (which suits the Tarrasch philoshofy well, for example 3.Nd2 c5! or IQP variations against the exch variations and so on) so as to have a complete repertoire book!

The book will be finished at the start of June and will be in Greek, so it would be very difficult for you to read it but i can provide you with every variation you like to ask because i have taken advantage of your kind help and sincere discussions on this foroum and because this is just my character as a person!

Now, as for the Avrukh's recommendation. I think it is one of the times we can say "both sides are happy", this means that White can be happy because he can claim a tiny tiny theoritical edge but Black can also be happy because he has free piece play and many chances to punish inaccurancies by White. In "my book" i offer Watson's recommended improvements along with an Aagaard's line which is 12...Re8 13.Nc5 Bxc5 14.Bxc5 Qd7!? 15.Re1 Rac8 16.Bd4 Ne4= and i add a comment of mine which is: if 16.Nd4 b6 17.Ba3 Nxd4 18.Qxd4 Rxe2. 

Everything in Chess has it's Yin and Yan side. Avrukh's line is good because it is easy to memorise and can bring a slight theoritical edge but OTB there are much many things that can go wrong and lose quickly and you have to play the resulting positions with a great amount of high level technique agains a fairly strong opponent to bring the win home. You have to chose.... I'm currently studying Wojo's book recommendation against the Tarrasch and this also seems to be a nice practical weapon, even though Black has again much more counterplay than the main lines with Bg5+...c4 and my favourite ...h6.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #153 - 04/01/10 at 03:17:17
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/01/10 at 02:37:48:

I'm beginning to agree with you, BP.  I had never liked 9...c4 (from the white side), and am totally frustrated that it seems to work.  I'm hoping Amet can find something to give white theoretical (and not just practical) hope.  Otherwise, Avrukh's solution may be best.

Magnus Carlsen has shown that even a dead drawn rook ending can be won against even 2700+ opposition, but I'd rather not go to such extremes in an opening such as the Tarrasch.


My observation once finally getting a good look at 9. dxc5 Bxc5 10. Na4 Be7 11. Be3 Bg4 12. Rc1, and the Watson suggestions is that Avrukh's is +=, but it's just not one that can be overstated, meaning black will have pretty decent play, and white's edge is mostly theoretical. If I were using symbols I'd put +=/<--> (slight advantage white/black counterplay).

My main attraction to 9. Bg5 is the desire to have a more "forcing" (meant loosely) theoretical edge. However, 11. b3 h6 is indeed a problem for white.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #152 - 04/01/10 at 02:37:48
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BPaulsen wrote on 04/01/10 at 00:21:26:

...
In comparing resulting positions, I'm starting to think white has more of something in the Avrukh stuff with 9. dxc5 even with Watson's attempted improvements.


I'm beginning to agree with you, BP.  I had never liked 9...c4 (from the white side), and am totally frustrated that it seems to work.  I'm hoping Amet can find something to give white theoretical (and not just practical) hope.  Otherwise, Avrukh's solution may be best.

Magnus Carlsen has shown that even a dead drawn rook ending can be won against even 2700+ opposition, but I'd rather not go to such extremes in an opening such as the Tarrasch.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #151 - 04/01/10 at 00:21:26
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Ametanoitos wrote on 03/31/10 at 15:34:36:
Yes, 14...Qa6 is equal, but also OK is 14...Qb6.

After 16.Rc1 we tried together with a Greek IM to improve for White but we didn't manage to do so.

14.Na4 Rb8 15.e3 Rb4 16.Rc1 and now i'd be more than happy to play 16...Rxa4! I don't know if this is entirelly correct. but i cannot see a way forward for White. Maybe i'm wrong and best is 16...Be7.


The simple 16...cxb3 also creates a pretty equal position given even if white is += black should be able to hold easily there, 16...Rxa4 would need a closer look. It's a good idea, though.

I didn't see it posted, but also here's black's improvement on Khalifman's line:

9...c4 10. Ne5 Be6 11. e3 Nd7 12. Nxc6 bxc6 13. Bxe7 Qxe7 14. b3 Nb6 15. bxc4 Nxc4 16. Qa4 Qd7 (using the same idea as a Grischuk game that involved 15. Qc2).

I know nothing about 11. f4, admittedly, so what's black's best line there according to theory? All I know is it's supposed to be sharp.

I'm still working on the 11. b3 h6 line. As of right now my immediate impression of this line is that black looks okay, and that white's best might be 16. Rc1 Rac8 17. Qc2 (unmentioned by Grivas). I don't know if I believe white has anything after, for example, 17...Rfd8 18. Rfd1 Be7, as it seems unclear pending further investigation.

In comparing resulting positions, I'm starting to think white has more of something in the Avrukh stuff with 9. dxc5 even with Watson's attempted improvements.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #150 - 03/31/10 at 21:37:41
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Ofcourse!  Smiley
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #149 - 03/31/10 at 21:33:47
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Ok, I'll get back to this tomorrow.  Since this is an open game, all comments are welcome. Agreed?
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #148 - 03/31/10 at 21:29:28
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24.Nf6+ Kg7 25.Nh5+ and if 25...Kh6 26.Nf4
  
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