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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Tarrasch in Black and White (Read 60912 times)
Markovich
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #327 - 01/10/11 at 01:04:53
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All right everyone, this thread was way out of control, something for which I as moderator must take the blame.  When I saw some of the strange and troublesome rhetoric here yesterday, I was at first at a loss for how to deal with it.  But I've thought about it, and I've decided that it's unfair to criticize a book without having seen a single page of it.  And unfair or not, it is totally vacuous and time-wasting to dispute along these lines.  It's fair to say, "Well, I will have to wait and see how good this book is, given that it's authored by someone rated below FM and concerns a system that I consider to be borderline unsound."  But prolonged disputations with its author upon an unseen book's presumed deficiencies are neither constructive to any purpose of this forum nor entirely fair.  And so I have removed them, as well as some of the rejoinders in defense of the work.  

Further, however unusual it may be to publish a chess book by a not-very-high-ranking player, this is not a topic relevant to 1.d4 d5.  The same question might be asked about Tony Ro's forthcoming Kalashnikov book.  If you want to debate it, do it in General Chess, not here.  I didn't transfer the offending posts to General Chess, however, because most of them were heated and obnoxious.

When someone finally has this book in hand and has specific issues with the chess in it, come back and post.  Until then, remain silent.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #326 - 01/10/11 at 00:55:25
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MNb i only looked at it a bit quickly, so don't be harsh on me if something is not quite correct!


1. c4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. g3 Nf6 

(As a Tarrasch player i would definately play 3... c5 at this point 4. Bg2 Nc6 5. O-O Nf6 

(5... d4 is correct and the critical Black's try according to my understanding 6. d3 Nf6 7. e3 e5 8. exd4 exd4 9. Re1+ Be7 10. Ne5 Nxe5 11. Rxe5 O-O seems OK for Black even though there must be a more convincing continuation?) 

6. d4 dxc4 is a transposition to a known Catalan line where in my opinion Black has equal chances) 

4. Bg2 Be7 5. O-O O-O 6. d4 c5 7. dxc5 Bxc5 8. a3 was the tabiya you asked for a recommendation. I believe that 8... dxc4 9. Qc2
Nc6 10. Qxc4 Be7
is the answer 

(10... Bb6 11. Nc3 

(11. Bf4 is potentially akwatd to meet, stopping e5 11...Nd5

(or mayne we can play it? 11... e5 12. Nxe5 Nxe5 13.
Bxe5 Ng4 14. Bc3 Nxf2 15. Rxf2 Qd1+ 16. Bf1 Bh3 17. e3 Bxe3 18. Qe2 Qc1 19. Qe1
Bxf2+ 20. Kxf2 Qh6
and probably White has an edge) 

12. Bd2 is probably a little +/=?) 

11... e5 12. Bg5 

(12. Rd1 Be6 or simply 12... Qe8=

12...Be6 13. Qh4 and now after 13...h6 14. Bxf6 Qxf6 15. Qxf6 gxf6 this b3 square seems annoying! For example 16. Na4 Rfd8 17. Nxb6 axb6 18. Rfd1 Na5 19. Nd2 Bb3

11. Nc3 

(Now 11. Bf4 is met by 11...Ng4 12. h3 e5 13. Bd2 Be6

11... e5 12. Rd1 Be6 13. Qxc6 (13. Qb5 Qb8 =
13... bxc6 14. Rxd8 Bxd8 15. Nxe5 Nd5 16. Nxc6 Nxc3 17. bxc3 Bf6 of course i should add references etc or analyse more variations but my first impression is that Black should be more or less OK. I didn't check though my corr games database. Is there a particular game that was played and caused you worries?

  
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MNb
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #325 - 01/09/11 at 20:48:20
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Ametanoitos wrote on 01/09/11 at 19:14:32:
No MNb, unfortunately we don't have the space to analyse English, Reti and 'd'-pawn lines.

That's something I understand, but the line above is quite close to the Tarrasch, don't you think? I even wonder if there is some transposition beginning with 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5, but am too lazy to find out.

Ametanoitos wrote on 01/09/11 at 19:14:32:
If you wait a bit i can see the line you give and respond to you.

I'd appreciate that and am a patient guy.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #324 - 01/09/11 at 19:14:32
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No MNb, unfortunately we don't have the space to analyse English, Reti and 'd'-pawn lines. But we can create a seperate thread (or use this thread if the originator hasn't got a problem with that) to discuss those lines. I have a lot of material in these deviations from the main line Tarrasch. At moment though there are thoughts of using this material in the future for maybe a Greek edition of the book, or something like that. Anyway he can discuss them at least and i can provide my opinions using my experience after studying them. If you wait a bit i can see the line you give and respond to you. At present there is a lot of work to do but i hope that i'll find a little amount of time to look at this shortly.

@ReneDescartes: Thank you for your kind words, they are really appreciated. But i believe that using words like "jealous" to discribe others motivations is at least injustice. I would be much more sceptical than them in fact! Maybe i would express by thoughts in another way though, but in reality i am the one that has to prove to the scepticists that my book is of high quality and not the opposite.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #323 - 01/09/11 at 03:05:28
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Fascinating. And by the way, Congratulations on the book - terribly exciting. I admire what you are doing.

Somebody call Kasparov and ask him to write a Preface!!
  

"Experience is a dim lamp, which only lights the one who bears it."
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #322 - 01/08/11 at 22:27:06
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Thank you Konstriktor for your kind words.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #321 - 01/08/11 at 22:05:43
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Good luck with the book Ametanoitos!!

You're contributions to this forum are always much appreciated.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #320 - 01/08/11 at 07:20:52
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I think that we are playing with words here. To tell you the truth i believe that objectively this position is equal. Avrukh disagrees (regarding his evaluation in his book) but i have Euwe, Keres, Kasparov and a lot of other people that have supported my opinion in the past!  Smiley

We can talk for hours about what "+/=" means, or even try to write a book about it (but Rowson did that first, see his "Chess for Zebras") but we can agree (i think) that "+/=" means that the game should end in a draw after correct play by both sides. But that's not the real point.

Imagine we are talking about the Lasker's Defence (someone can also see the relevant thread). Let's say that we conclude that Lasker leads to equality and Tarrasch leads to a slight advantage for Black, but we agree that Black has counterplay in the Tarrasch. What is more important for a club player? To play a level (or slightly worse position, imo) without great level of activity, as in the Lasker Defence, or play a position that he will have excellent counterplay regardless of the theoritical status? In both cases the "hyper-theoritical" (as Rowson calls it) evaluation is a draw (as really there are no "+/=" in Chess but only win-draw-loss). Personally i prefer the second option because i am an amateur, and an ambitious one in fact that wants to be able to win every game with Black. 

I sincerely believe that there are far more dangerous lines that White can chose against the Tarrasch (and in fact i cnsider Avrukh's line more dangerous for White than for Black in practice). Many of them are neglected by today's theory as the "theory" in Tarrasch is a very confused subject in general. Also many of Black's options have been unmentioned in the past and someine reading this thread can figure out what i am talking about (see those ...h6 lines we analysed some time back or the big discussion about 6.dxc5 and alternatives to 6...d4). So, a book had to come (as many of the members of this foroum concluded) to "sort things out".
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #319 - 01/08/11 at 03:06:52
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I must have missed the part where Avrukh's recommendation is completely equalized against, given Watson also thought white was able to get a little something regardless, and I looked at your suggestions in this thread.

Even in this thread the conclusion wasn't equality, so much as counterplay (black gets activity for his IQP). The two concepts aren't the same, since one can have counterplay in what is objectively a slightly worse position.

Good luck with the book.
  

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FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #318 - 01/07/11 at 22:59:27
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I wish that all these could happen of course but i don't want to get ahead of myself. I'm not a professional. Even though it is true that i have made money from chess (from coaching) all those years i see it (and i''ll continue to see it of course) only as a (wonderfull) hobby. What i want to do now is to offer the best material i could offer to the readers to make them not regret for the money they spent. Many foroum members helped in this and i'm gratefull to them.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #317 - 01/07/11 at 22:50:20
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Nikolaos, you are a genius! Well done!  Cheesy

I think we will soon see your name appearing more often in Yearbooks, Informants, and of course more Quality Chess books!  Cool
  

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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #316 - 01/07/11 at 19:17:43
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Lots of new ideas for White are analysed also! And you will see that they are extremely dangerous and ambitious!  Of course we found the way to counter them eventually but they can really be quite unpleasant in practice. 

I believe that an opening book should be ahead of the theory of the opening it analyses. We don't see this quite a lot in recent books and that's why i have criticized many new books in several threads of this foroum. But the Tarrasch book is simply MANY years ahead of the current theory of the opening.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #315 - 01/07/11 at 18:34:56
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"Whoa!" - Keanu Reeves

That's amazing that you are writing a GM Rep book.  I will definitely be getting it in hardcover and will probably trot out the Tarrasch in a few games.  Too bad I will have to face it myself, which I don't altogether enjoy.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #314 - 01/07/11 at 17:27:01
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Yes, Ntirlis Nikolaos is actually my name  Smiley
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #313 - 01/07/11 at 16:11:54
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Is the co-author Nikolaos Ntirlis someone we know here in the forum?  Smiley
  
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