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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Tarrasch in Black and White (Read 60927 times)
Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #567 - 02/13/12 at 15:31:25
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I'll happily participate and comment if you start posting analysis on this line. I just cannot analyse it deeply on my own right now because i have more urgent things to finish first.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #566 - 02/13/12 at 11:37:10
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Ametanoitos wrote on 02/10/12 at 23:25:23:
But as we are a live foroum here i can propose to analyse this line (6.dxc5 d4 7.Na4 Bf5) and find out if Black has adequate comp or no.


That would be extremely interesting to see. Would give another approach to black in the 6.dxc5 line!  Smiley
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #565 - 02/11/12 at 09:19:37
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It is understandable mistake. The idea of playing Bf4-e3-a3 without the N on f3 is something that we are going to see played heavily soon. I predict that also soon we are going to see it defused (by Kramnik, or Gelfand himself probably!) but i cannot but admit that this and the similar Bf4 systems are disturbing for a Black player. Maybe ...b6 is a universal solution? Anyway, this is another subject that doesn't fit with the threads name...
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #564 - 02/10/12 at 23:48:25
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My bad, I swapped Aronian and Gelfand's name, so I thought you were talking about the line covered in CBM.
  

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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #563 - 02/10/12 at 23:25:23
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In the "Kasparov on Modern Chess" book i read that Kasparov never lost a game in the Tarrasch Defense (even training ones!) untill the Karpov match. After feeling that playing the Tarrasch against him is a bad strategy he began looking at the Grunfeld with Adorjan. I feel that if the 9...c4 line was more known back then , this was the move he would play as it is much more in line with his style.By the way,  Jacob keeps winning games in Glasgow league and Danish league in the weekends in the same aggresive style! (Keep an eye for future QC newsletters!).

2 things i'd like to say about the recent Chessbase Magazine 146 issue. First of all BPaulsen said that the QGD system i mentioned is analysed by Postny. This was not the system i was reffering to (see Gelfand-Aronian from the latest Tata Steel). Second and most important is that there is an article that deals with the 6.dxc5! line of the Tarrasch Defence. I don't believe that this article can compare with the book because it doesn't mention all of the critical lines (!) but it offers some material on the second best move, the ...Bf5 gambit which is not so bad as a practical try. We rejected it because we couldn't prove compensation, but Lane also thinks that Black is fine there (from a recent chesscafe article of his), as well as ECO of course (i believe that the sources i mentioned just copy ECO's conclusions). Maybe in the future i'll have a second look at it (the ...Bf5 line) and maybe i'll propose Jacob to say a couple of things in a future newsletter. But as we are a live foroum here i can propose to analyse this line (6.dxc5 d4 7.Na4 Bf5) and find out if Black has adequate comp or no.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #562 - 02/10/12 at 23:09:30
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I studied the endgames in the 9. Bd2 line. They do not look very advantageous for White, and perhaps it is too optimistic, but I feel that I could play those two endgames (the one with the isolated e-pawn and the other one with White's pseudo-initiative on the d-file but with a symmetrical pawn structure) against grandmasters. I would not feel too comfortable playing those endgames as White against my own rating opposition (around 2250-2300), as I feel I could not garner enough pressure to utilise any advantages that would be present in those endgames.
  

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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #561 - 02/10/12 at 19:08:31
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A certain A Karpov Smiley Not that he remotely refuted it of course, but playing against it really did suit his style wonderfully well. 
(and Kasparov did go 0/2 with it the first two times he tried, so an obvious effect on his confidence from that.).
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #560 - 02/10/12 at 18:36:11
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why did Kasparov stop playing the Tarrasch ? Something wrong with the opening or lack of winning chances against strong players ?
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #559 - 02/10/12 at 17:55:38
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Pionist wrote on 02/10/12 at 16:12:42:
I'm playing the Tarrasch Defence for the first time. I really enjoy the grandmaster repertoire book. 
But what to play after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.g3 Nf6 7.Bg5 ? Is 7. ... c4 the move to get in the territory of the c4 Tarrasch? Or just Be7?


7...cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5.

Since white hasn't played Bg2 his development is awkward, and he has little better than 9.e3 there, a move he doesn't want to play. Black is fine.
  

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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #558 - 02/10/12 at 16:12:42
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I'm playing the Tarrasch Defence for the first time. I really enjoy the grandmaster repertoire book. 
But what to play after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.g3 Nf6 7.Bg5 ? Is 7. ... c4 the move to get in the territory of the c4 Tarrasch? Or just Be7?
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #557 - 02/10/12 at 10:00:58
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Chessexplained wrote on 02/10/12 at 09:57:44:
The Tarrasch setup can be played against anything besides 1.e4  Smiley

Formally speaking ..... 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 d5 could also be called a Tarrasch setup. It isn't very good though,.
  

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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #556 - 02/10/12 at 09:57:44
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Vass wrote on 02/10/12 at 09:26:31:
I wonder if black can use Tarrash as a weapon even against the English opening?! As long as I can figure after 1.c4 e6 the only valuable deviation from Tarrash for white can be the Reti setup.. Or am i wrong?!  Huh


The Tarrasch setup can be played against anything besides 1.e4  Smiley That also makes this opening really attractive for (ambitious) amateur players imho, as you considerably reduce the workload. Only deviations would be 'colors-reversed' stuff like KIA, or Nf3/b3 or of course the Reti. Otherwise it just transposes into the Tarrasch. One nice idea is to employ the Tarrasch against the Catalan, as the annoying 6.dxc5 line is already impossible you just need to learn the main line.

Addition: oops, MnB and BPaulsen beat me by minutes Smiley
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #555 - 02/10/12 at 09:53:59
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Vass wrote on 02/10/12 at 09:26:31:
As long as I can figure after 1.c4 e6 the only valuable deviation from Tarrash for white can be the Reti setup.. Or am i wrong?!  Huh

There is 1.e4 too.
More specifically: the Neo-Catalan 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 (2.g3 intending the KIA is more or less an 1.e4 opening) e6 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 Be7 5.O-O O-O 6.b3.
Coincidentally this is Delchev's recommendation in his new book on the Réti. He remarks (see the excerpt) that 6.d4 is a standard Catalan, but c5 7.cxd5 exd5 is going to be a normal Tarrasch.
  

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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #554 - 02/10/12 at 09:44:14
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Vass wrote on 02/10/12 at 09:26:31:
I wonder if black can use Tarrash as a weapon even against the English opening?! As long as I can figure after 1.c4 e6 the only valuable deviation from Tarrash for white can be the Reti setup.. Or am i wrong?!  Huh


Yes, black can. Tarrasch is a lot like the KID in that white's attempts to avoid the main lines do not impress. It's one of those few openings that 1.d4/1.Nf3/1.c4 will basically converge on the same point if they hope to get anywhere.

1.Nf3/1.c4 players will typically lose out on the 6.dxc5 variation that might be elevated to main line status, but that's not that big of a deal anyway - it's not like 6.g3 is going away any time soon, nor will it be inferior in relevance.
  

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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #553 - 02/10/12 at 09:42:00
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Ametanoitos wrote on 02/10/12 at 08:57:16:
MartinC wrote on 02/09/12 at 23:44:16:
Someone would probably have to work out how to even slightly annoy QGD players first Smiley


I think that the system Gelfand played against Aronian in Tata Steel this year is promising despite the final result. I bet we'll see more of this in the near future.


GM E. Postny is covering Aronian's line in CBM 146.

...It would be nice if white could get something tangible beyond fleeting pressure.
  

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