Poll
Poll Question: Which line is better for Black in the Fianchetto Grünfeld?
bars   pie

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 c6 4. Nf3 d5    
  7 (30.4%)
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 d5    
  16 (69.6%)




Total votes: 23
« Last Modified by: Gilchrist is a legend on: 07/08/11 at 20:14:22 »
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black (Read 9058 times)
zoo
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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #13 - 07/10/11 at 10:22:55
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so, White has reasonable chances to fight for an advantage, and Black has realistic hopes to fight for an advantage. that sums it up pretty well. Note that nobody is longer interested in putting his hopes to have chances to fight for equality, since that seems to be granted in the first place.
What is it with these polls anyway, a facebook-like feature? doesn't seem very helpful.
  
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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #12 - 07/10/11 at 00:25:48
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Avrukh stated that he had the most difficulty coming up with good lines against ...c6. He does claim to have discovered some very promising lines, but I get the impression he'd have been happier if there had been more practical tests of his ideas.   

My reading of Grandmaster Repertoire 1.d4 vol 2. is that d5 is easier for white to play against but Avrukh is proud to present some interesting ideas against the ..c6 lines too.
  
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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #11 - 07/09/11 at 19:31:23
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kylemeister wrote on 07/09/11 at 16:24:28:

Did he not also think (in his 1. d4 series) that White has reasonable chances to fight for an advantage against the ...c6 version?


Having read his ...c6 analysis I came away with the disctinct impression that he knew he was pushing it by claiming +=.
  

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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #10 - 07/09/11 at 16:52:44
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That´s the typical dilemma when writing about an opening repertoire for both sides.   Grin

But honestly I see no problem here. A line considered to be += can be fully acceptable for Black. I my opinion an honest author does not have to prove an advantage for White and equality for Black in all lines...
  
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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #9 - 07/09/11 at 16:24:28
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Fllg wrote on 07/09/11 at 15:57:11:

True, but earlier in the mentioned article Avrukh also states that in the critical line in his opinion White has "reasonable chances to fight for an advantage".


Did he not also think (in his 1. d4 series) that White has reasonable chances to fight for an advantage against the ...c6 version?

One might wonder how his Schach analysis of that line (with 14...e5) differs from what was given in the Yearbook, which thought it should be equal or unclear (I notice that one of the Yearbook's variations also goes to move 22).
I am naturally curious about the "duelling Avrukhs" issue:  is there a line versus ...c6 which he thought to be += in his White book which he will consider = in his Black book, or how will that work exactly?
  
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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #8 - 07/09/11 at 15:57:11
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kylemeister wrote on 07/08/11 at 21:46:21:
It could be mentioned that a couple of other 2600 players focussed on #2 in their Gruenfeld-for-Black book of a few months ago.  Regarding Avrukh's article, saying that something "looks pretty balanced, but I would still prefer to play with the white pieces" doesn't exactly sound like a ringing condemnation of Black's choice of variation.  


True, but earlier in the mentioned article Avrukh also states that in the critical line in his opinion White has "reasonable chances to fight for an advantage". 

Most likely both lines are ok and as so often the choice is just a matter of taste.
  
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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #7 - 07/08/11 at 22:41:36
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The c6 line rightly has a reputation for being "solid". In fact, Avrukh's chapter on the variation is "the Solid Variation". 

I see ...d5 far more often. I believe that's because it's more "natural" for a Grunfeld player and it really is more dynamic.

From an objective perspective, c6 is probably better. But if Black is seeking to maximise his winning chances, d5 is probably the better choice.
  
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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #6 - 07/08/11 at 21:56:32
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To me, it seems as if the c6/d5 variation is more reliable but not as interesting, whilst the d5/Nxd5 variation is more enjoyable but Black concedes the centre more so than in the c6/d4 variation.
  

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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #5 - 07/08/11 at 21:46:21
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It could be mentioned that a couple of other 2600 players focussed on #2 in their Gruenfeld-for-Black book of a few months ago.  Regarding Avrukh's article, saying that something "looks pretty balanced, but I would still prefer to play with the white pieces" doesn't exactly sound like a ringing condemnation of Black's choice of variation.  
  
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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #4 - 07/08/11 at 20:48:10
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At least according to Avrukh it´s option # 1.

About option # 2 see his current article which I mentioned here: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1309114327/30#30

Despite playing the KID I used # 2 a few times in the past and liked the general structure. But I´m not up to date on the theory here. Since the treatment of the Yugoslav/Panno by Vigorito in the second volume about the KID makes such an excellent impression it´s not likely I´m going to change that.  Wink
  
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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #3 - 07/08/11 at 20:24:53
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Ironically I played Option #1 when I played the King's Indian and now I play Option #2 when I switched to the Grünfeld. I play the Fianchetto as White and I usually have problems playing against Option #2 than Option #1.
  

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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #2 - 07/08/11 at 20:22:31
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I actually have a clear opinion on this at the moment (as per the usual, it can change if something new pops up), and it's option #1.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Re: Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
Reply #1 - 07/08/11 at 19:31:28
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I wonder if a choice like "it seems reasonable to think that, as far as anyone can tell, they are equally good" just goes against the nature of such polls.
  
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Fianchetto Grünfeld for Black
07/08/11 at 19:14:17
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1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 c6 4. Nf3 d5 (c6 and d5 line)

or

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 d5 (where Black recaptures the pawn on d5 with the knight)
« Last Edit: 07/08/11 at 20:18:03 by Gilchrist is a legend »  

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