ChessPub Forum - C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit

Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #39 - 07/11/12 at 16:05:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	Markovich wrote on 07/11/12 at 15:21:17: OK, what's your opinion of 15...Rh6 16.Rac1 (I meant this move) 17...0-0-0 17.Bxa7 b6? I looked at 18.d6 Bxd6 19.Bxb6 Bxf4 20.Rfd1 Bxc1. Exactly. My PC at first assessed it as better for Black, later it fell to a mere -0.15. Black has to watch White's a-pawn, I think that Black has nothing at all here.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #38 - 07/11/12 at 15:21:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	Markovich wrote on 07/11/12 at 15:12:20: I was planning 15...Rh6 but I just noticed 16.Rc1 which does look equal. I'll habe to come back. OK, what's your opinion of 15...Rh6 16.Rac1 (I meant this move) 17...0-0-0 17.Bxa7 b6? I looked at 18.d6 Bxd6 19.Bxb6 Bxf4 20.Rfd1 Bxc1.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #37 - 07/11/12 at 15:12:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	I was planning 15...Rh6 but I just noticed 16.Rc1 which does look equal. I'll habe to come back.

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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #36 - 07/11/12 at 13:50:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Markovich wrote on 07/11/12 at 12:50:24: White's not exchanging queens is a policy I would agree with, but I would much rather be Black after 15.Bf2. Fundamentally I don't think that White has enough play to compensate for his serious structural deficiencies. White better keep that knight, because it's the only thing holding his position together. So if ever Nc5, I will just take it off. Either side may have better a little earlier, of course, but I find it difficult to join in your evaluation of the position in your diagram. Can you tell, perhaps, to which side you would castle? Evals of both plans do not differ very much, but it is a key decision and the PC simply doesn't see far enough. White is ready to take on a7, if possible, and b6 invites a4-a5. Castling short looks better, but White reacts with Kh1 and Rg1.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #35 - 07/11/12 at 12:50:24	Post Tools	Print Post
	White's not exchanging queens is a policy I would agree with, but I would much rather be Black after 15.Bf2. Fundamentally I don't think that White has enough play to compensate for his serious structural deficiencies. White better keep that knight, because it's the only thing holding his position together. So if ever Nc5, I will just take it off. Either side may have better a little earlier, of course, but I find it difficult to join in your evaluation of the position in your diagram.

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Stefan Buecker

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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #34 - 07/11/12 at 09:26:20

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Markovich wrote on 07/10/12 at 12:02:53:

I would like to return to 5...Bf5 6.Bd3 e4 7.Nge2 Nf3+ 8.gxf3 exd3 9.Ng3 and now 9...Qd7 as mentioned in passing by Stefan.. Simple chess. 10.Nxf5 Qxf5 11.Qxd3 (11.cxd3 looks doubtful to me) 11...Qxd3 12.cxd3 0-0-0.

I am not so eager to exchange queens, or to take your Bf5. My reply would be 10.Nce4 dxc2 (10...Qxd5?! 11.Nxf5) 11.Qxc2 Ne7 12.0-0 h5 (what else?) 13. Be3 h4 14.Nxf5 Nxf5 15. Bf2. - Black has managed to get his knight to f5, but lost some time with the advance h5-h4. This pawn is no weakness, but not a big improvement either. The chances are equal.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #33 - 07/10/12 at 12:02:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	I would like to return to 5...Bf5 6.Bd3 e4 7.Nge2 Nf3+ 8.gxf3 exd3 9.Ng3 and now 9...Qd7 as mentioned in passing by Stefan.. Simple chess. 10.Nxf5 Qxf5 11.Qxd3 (11.cxd3 looks doubtful to me) 11...Qxd3 12.cxd3 0-0-0. Shredder running on my hand-held here on Cape Cod says this is even, but I myself would much rather be Black. E.g. 13.Be3 Ne7! and Black's knight settles in on f5. White will have to avoid Black's exchanging bishop for knight, which would confer immortality upon Black's own, powerfully posted knight. Would anyone play 1.e4 with the goal of reaching this position? Not according to my understanding of this game.

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Stefan Buecker

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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #32 - 07/10/12 at 06:18:46

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In Smyslov_Fan's analysis, after 8...g5 9.d6 cxd6 10.Nd5 Qd8 11.c3 Be6, I agree that 12.Bg2 is the better choice. If 12...dxe5 (so far Smyslov_Fan), White has another option: 13.cxd4! (instead of 13.Bxg5) 13...Bxd5 14.Bxg5 f6 (14...Qxg5 15.Bxd5 exd4 16.Qb3 Qe7+ 17.Ne2 0-0-0 18.0-0-0, about equal) 15.Qa4+

...followed by 16.Nf3. A complicated position; White isn't worse.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #31 - 07/09/12 at 18:01:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	Something about that reminds me of Alekhine's Defense, Four Pawns Attack. But yes, interesting.

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Smyslov_Fan YaBB Moderator Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #30 - 07/09/12 at 17:46:13	Post Tools	Print Post
	Here's what I've been looking at, focusing on 5...Bc5, 6...Qh4+ and 8...g5. Download game in pgn format


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #29 - 07/09/12 at 17:12:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	That's probably right. However Black also has 10...Bh3 11.Re1+ Ne7 12.Qxd3 0-0-0 and it's, umm, unclear. I doubt if Black is at all better there though, so perhaps Black should indeed try something besides 9...Qh4.

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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #28 - 07/09/12 at 15:24:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	Markovich wrote on 07/09/12 at 14:07:59: 9...Qh4 is the move I've been looking at. It is a game of chess, but based on my current understanding I would rather be Black. No doubt it merits more study, if indeed anything about the Fyfe Gambit merits study. If 9...Qh4, 10.0-0 Bc5+ 11.Kh1 Ne7 12.Nce4 Bb6 13.Qxd3 Bh3 14.Rd1 0-0 15.c4 += [or +/-] (0.45/depth 24).


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #27 - 07/09/12 at 14:07:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	9...Qh4 is the move I've been looking at. It is a game of chess, but based on my current understanding I would rather be Black. No doubt it merits more study, if indeed anything about the Fyfe Gambit merits study.

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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #26 - 07/09/12 at 13:54:15	Post Tools	Print Post
	Markovich wrote on 07/09/12 at 12:39:26: Interesting, Stefan. After 4.f4 d5 5.exd5 Bf5 6.Bd3 e4 (this is the only move that I have considered) 7.Nge2, I don't think that 7...Nf3+ 8.gxf3 exd3 is unclear, I think it's better for Black. Before you posted, I was just about to post this interesting variation, which I think is also better for Black (though it is so long, it may not be of much significance) 7.Ba6 (instead of 7.Nge2) Bc5 8.Bxb7 Rb8 9.Na4 Qe7 10.Ne2 Qh4+ 11.Ng3 (11.g3 leads to mate) 11...e3 12.Nxc5 Nxc2+ 13.Kf1 Qxf4+ 14.Qf3 Qc4+ 15.Qe2 Qxc5 16.Nxf5 (16.Bc3+ Bd7) 16...Rxb7 17.Bxe3 Nxe3 18.Nxf3 Ne7 19.Nf5 Kd8. I had seen this 7.Ba6 Bc5 8.Bxb7, but found a refutation: 8...e3! 9.Bxa8 Qxa8 10.Bxe3 Nxc2+ 11.Qxc2 Bxc2 12.Bxc5 Nf6 13.Rc1, and here maybe 13...Ne4 or something else. It seems that Black consolidates, and White can merely try to hold a bad ending. In the first position, after 8...exd3 9. Ng3, the computer tried both 9...Qd7 and 9...Qe7+. In both cases some longer lines ended -0.15, and from a human perspective just completely unclear. As you used to say: It's a game of chess.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread) Reply #25 - 07/09/12 at 12:39:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	Interesting, Stefan. After 4.f4 d5 5.exd5 Bf5 6.Bd3 e4 (this is the only move that I have considered) 7.Nge2, I don't think that 7...Nf3+ 8.gxf3 exd3 is unclear, I think it's better for Black. Before you posted, I was just about to post this interesting variation, which I think is also better for Black (though it is so long, it may not be of much significance) 7.Ba6 (instead of 7.Nge2) Bc5 8.Bxb7 Rb8 9.Na4 Qe7 10.Ne2 Qh4+ 11.Ng3 (11.g3 leads to mate) 11...e3 12.Nxc5 Nxc2+ 13.Kf1 Qxf4+ 14.Qf3 Qc4+ 15.Qe2 Qxc5 16.Nxf5 (16.Bc3+ Bd7) 16...Rxb7 17.Bxe3 Nxe3 18.Nxf3 Ne7 19.Nf5 Kd8.

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