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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Classical Main Line 9.Bg5 (Read 13484 times)
BobbyDigital80
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Re: Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
Reply #10 - 11/25/21 at 09:31:16
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kylemeister wrote on 08/22/12 at 20:25:44:
Ludde wrote on 08/22/12 at 19:50:57:
In practice I many times got in the trick where black does not play h6 or Nh5 and allows white a perfect Mar del Plata with Nf3-d2 and Bg5-e3.


Regarding that, I notice that Panczyk and Ilczuk in their book of a few years ago treated 9...Nd7 as their main line (though they didn't think White should be better after 9...Nh5 or 9...h6), with the pawn offer 10. Nd2 f5 11. f3 f4 12. Bh4 g5.


I don’t understand the point of 12…g5 (or 12.Bh4 for that matter). Can’t White just take the pawn for free?
  
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Ludde
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Re: Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
Reply #9 - 08/23/12 at 07:55:57
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kylemeister wrote on 08/23/12 at 02:44:47:
ChessAnimal wrote on 08/23/12 at 00:43:00:

kylemeister,
I looked up the Nd7 line and that doesn't seem to pose any problems for White. It seems like he will play Bf2, Nb3 and focus on a c5 push which seems quite easy to accomplish.


I would guess that 9...Nd7 10. Nd2 f5 11. f3 f4 12. Bh4 g5 13. Bf2 might be equal -- Black is a tempo up on a line of the Gligoric that has been considered +=. 

I would agree that it is not absolutely clear in these lines. When i played this my opponents often threw away a tempo on h7-h6 at som point anyway. Still, I think that these positions are easier to play for white than regular Mar del Plata stuff since it is crystal clear what the plan is when the N is on d2. Push c5 and put the knight on c4. It could well be that objectively black has sufficent play though.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
Reply #8 - 08/23/12 at 02:44:47
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ChessAnimal wrote on 08/23/12 at 00:43:00:

kylemeister,
I looked up the Nd7 line and that doesn't seem to pose any problems for White. It seems like he will play Bf2, Nb3 and focus on a c5 push which seems quite easy to accomplish.


I would guess that 9...Nd7 10. Nd2 f5 11. f3 f4 12. Bh4 g5 13. Bf2 might be equal -- Black is a tempo up on a line of the Gligoric that has been considered +=. 
  
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ChessAnimal
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Re: Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
Reply #7 - 08/23/12 at 00:43:00
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I sent the creator of Rook2d2 a message regarding the Kh7 line. He agreed and said he was going to add it to his video.
kylemeister,
I looked up the Nd7 line and that doesn't seem to pose any problems for White. It seems like he will play Bf2, Nb3 and focus on a c5 push which seems quite easy to accomplish.
  
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Re: Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
Reply #6 - 08/22/12 at 20:25:44
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Ludde wrote on 08/22/12 at 19:50:57:
In practice I many times got in the trick where black does not play h6 or Nh5 and allows white a perfect Mar del Plata with Nf3-d2 and Bg5-e3.


Regarding that, I notice that Panczyk and Ilczuk in their book of a few years ago treated 9...Nd7 as their main line (though they didn't think White should be better after 9...Nh5 or 9...h6), with the pawn offer 10. Nd2 f5 11. f3 f4 12. Bh4 g5.
  
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Ludde
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Re: Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
Reply #5 - 08/22/12 at 19:50:57
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ChessAnimal wrote on 08/22/12 at 16:13:26:
Bibs,
I checked out the other videos on his channel and in his introduction video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ezZ54RVQPU) he explains how he used to teach chess to high school students. 

Ludde,
As far as the 11...Kg7 line I just looked up some games and analyzed it with Deep Rybka 4 and I agree with you that the line in the video does seem cooperative for Black. However, It seems that if White continues with 12. c5 Ng8 13. a4 Be7 14. c6 (instead of a5) bxc6 15. dxc6 f5 16. Nd2 Nf6 17. Qb3 following Galyas vs. Schneider where White has a slight advantage. I personally like this position. After the trade on e4 White will focus on controlling the d5 square keeping Black's dark squared bishop a bad bishop. Black will try to activate his bishop on g5 but after that I have a hard time find a clear plan for Black. Whereas, White can use his space advantage and control over the light squares to continue a queenside attack at some point.

I only have some old notes from the 90:s (which means no engine was involved) where I had the idea that 15..Be6 was a more accurate move-order. Now it seems to me that this depends on whether white can force the exchange of bishops with 16.Nd2 planning Bc4. I agree though that it is too simplistic to dismiss the line without checking these positions in depth. In practice I many times got in the trick where black does not play h6 or Nh5 and allows white a perfect Mar del Plata with Nf3-d2 and Bg5-e3.
  
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ChessAnimal
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Re: Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
Reply #4 - 08/22/12 at 16:13:26
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Bibs,
I checked out the other videos on his channel and in his introduction video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ezZ54RVQPU) he explains how he used to teach chess to high school students. 

Ludde,
As far as the 11...Kg7 line I just looked up some games and analyzed it with Deep Rybka 4 and I agree with you that the line in the video does seem cooperative for Black. However, It seems that if White continues with 12. c5 Ng8 13. a4 Be7 14. c6 (instead of a5) bxc6 15. dxc6 f5 16. Nd2 Nf6 17. Qb3 following Galyas vs. Schneider where White has a slight advantage. I personally like this position. After the trade on e4 White will focus on controlling the d5 square keeping Black's dark squared bishop a bad bishop. Black will try to activate his bishop on g5 but after that I have a hard time find a clear plan for Black. Whereas, White can use his space advantage and control over the light squares to continue a queenside attack at some point.
  
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Ludde
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Re: Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
Reply #3 - 08/22/12 at 08:02:00
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I used to play this line quite a lot some 10-15 years ago. Eventually i got convinced that the plan after 9..h6 10.Bxf6 Bxf6 11.b4 Kg7 with the plan Ng8, Be7 and f7-f5 at least equalized for black. I just looked at the first few minutes of the video, but I see that it addresses this very variation. dxc5 as in the video looks very cooperative from black.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
Reply #2 - 08/22/12 at 07:46:35
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Had a quick look at the vid. 
The presenter explains the basics unusually well (for a youtube jobbie I mean) for club players. Is he a school teacher? Could have done with more detail, but he clearly had planned through the material and had thought about structuring and the explanations. Credit where due, did the job well.

Remember this Bg5 from an old book 'Russian GM chess secrets' or something, some 15-20 years ago. Leaky.
  
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Re: Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
Reply #1 - 08/22/12 at 02:47:32
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I haven't watched the videos, but it could be mentioned that 9. Bg5 has been considered a decent "book" move for many years.
  
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ChessAnimal
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Classical Main Line 9.Bg5
08/21/12 at 23:35:29
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I just found these videos on http://www.youtube.com/user/Rook2D2?feature=mhee  that go over Classical Main Line King's Indian Defense deviating at move nine with Bg5. It seems really good! I've tried it out in some blitz matches with great results. I'm starting to analyze it now and everything seems sound. Check out the videos and let me know what you guys think
  
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