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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French? (Read 23704 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #49 - 11/22/23 at 17:56:34
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You might want to check out the following from Mihail Marin at Modern-chess:

"Leningrad Dutch with 1...e6"

https://www.modern-chess.com/leningrad-dutch-with-1-e6-4h-and-30min-running-time...

There is a Black Friday sale, which was 70% off on one title that I checked.

Towards the end of the intro, they state that you might want to match it with Cheparinov's recent French repertoire. Fine, but Marin also has a French repertoire!
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #48 - 02/12/22 at 20:42:56
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Arnaudov wrote on 02/10/20 at 23:03:47:
I want to create a complete repertoire for White and Black based on the French Defense. So I have two questions:

1) Which do you think is more similar, especially in pawn structure, to the French: the QGD (perhaps particularly the Ragozin var.), the Tarrasch, the Semi-Slav, the Dutch (i.e., Stonewall), or something else?

and 2)  What is most similar with White? I'm thinking of 1 d4 with 2 c4, for similarities of pawn chain and their pawn-thrusts of c4 and c5 respectively, but what else should I consider?

I appreciate your input.  Smiley


None of the ones you list!

The French is best known for its blocked center and play on the wings.  Pawn chains, and attacking in the direction in which the pawns point are key to the French Defense, hence White's Kingside attack and Black's Queenside play with no real central counterplay.

The solution is to go with the d4-opening that also leads to the blocked center, the King's Indian Defense!

The King's Indian plays the same way as the French.  The center is blocked, and the play is on the wings.  Each side attacks the side to which their pawns point, and so White will go for a Queenside attack and Black a Kingside attack in the Mar Del Plata.

There are also many former GMs that played both defenses.  Top of the list would be Wolfgang Uhlmann.  Another big name would be Igor Glek.


As far as playing White, I would suggest sticking with 1.e4.  There are lots of lines similar in nature, maintaining a fairly closed position.  These include:

Advance vs Caro-Kann
Whatever line you understand most against the French
Closed Sicilian
Slow Italian
3.f3 against the Pirc, leading to a Saemisch King's Indian
3.c4 against the Modern
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #47 - 02/12/22 at 20:40:26
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Arnaudov wrote on 02/10/20 at 23:03:47:
I want to create a complete repertoire for White and Black based on the French Defense. So I have two questions:

1) Which do you think is more similar, especially in pawn structure, to the French: the QGD (perhaps particularly the Ragozin var.), the Tarrasch, the Semi-Slav, the Dutch (i.e., Stonewall), or something else?

and 2)  What is most similar with White? I'm thinking of 1 d4 with 2 c4, for similarities of pawn chain and their pawn-thrusts of c4 and c5 respectively, but what else should I consider?

I appreciate your input.  Smiley


None of the ones you list!

The French is best known for its blocked center and play on the wings.  Pawn chains, and attacking in the direction in which the pawns point are key to the French Defense, hence White's Kingside attack and Black's Queenside play with no real central counterplay.

The solution is to go with the d4-opening that also leads to the blocked center, the King's Indian Defense!

The King's Indian plays the same way as the French.  The center is blocked, and the play is on the wings.  Each side attacks the side to which their pawns point, and so White will go for a Queenside attack and Black a Kingside attack in the Mar Del Plata.

There are also many former GMs that played both defenses.  Top of the list would be Wolfgang Uhlmann.  Another big name would be Igor Glek.
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #46 - 01/25/22 at 02:35:30
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Keano wrote on 08/09/21 at 18:34:56:
katar wrote on 08/09/21 at 17:56:51:
Stonewall Dutch, on the grounds that it is the queen-pawn defense with the worst "bad bishop" problem.  Young Botvinnik paired French and Stonewall Dutch.
The bad news is that you have a bad bishop.  The good news is that you have a middlegame plan: exchange or improve the bad bishop.  Chess is so easy sometimes.

Smiley

The Stonewall Dutch pairs well with the positional Winawer lines and c4 against the a3 Advance.  I would agree with everyone else that the Bogo/Nimzo or QGD/Nimzo pair with the more dynamic lines (e.g., MacCutcheon and 3. . . . c5 Tarrasch).
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #45 - 08/23/21 at 11:14:56
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emary wrote on 08/08/21 at 13:24:52:
bragesjo wrote on 06/26/20 at 15:47:23:
I gave up Nimzo/Bogo combo in over the board games becouse most club players play London or Colle.


I had this problem too. My solution (OTB and online) is
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.c4 dxc4 4.e3 Bg4
and I can play setups without e6 against the
Queens Pawn specials.

This QGA-line is covered in 
Delchev - Semkov
Understanding the Queen's Gambit Accepted.


Can you elaborate on which setups you are referring to against Queen's Pawn Specials? Thanks!
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #44 - 08/22/21 at 23:29:10
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The King's Indian has the blocked center and fixed Black pawn breaks; the Nimzo Saemisch has the Winawer's loss of the dark-square bishop for doubled c-pawns; the QGD has the bad black bishop; even the Benoni has the queenside attack of the Classical.

But is it such a secret? Nothing really feels like the French pawn-chain variations.
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #43 - 08/09/21 at 18:34:56
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katar wrote on 08/09/21 at 17:56:51:
Stonewall Dutch, on the grounds that it is the queen-pawn defense with the worst "bad bishop" problem.  Young Botvinnik paired French and Stonewall Dutch.
The bad news is that you have a bad bishop.  The good news is that you have a middlegame plan: exchange or improve the bad bishop.  Chess is so easy sometimes.

Smiley
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #42 - 08/09/21 at 17:56:51
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Stonewall Dutch, on the grounds that it is the queen-pawn defense with the worst "bad bishop" problem.  Young Botvinnik paired French and Stonewall Dutch.
The bad news is that you have a bad bishop.  The good news is that you have a middlegame plan: exchange or improve the bad bishop.  Chess is so easy sometimes.
  

2078 uscf
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #41 - 08/08/21 at 17:14:46
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I used to get annoyed at the perpetual London/Colle/Torre/Tromp/other openings.  You can take matters into your own hands and play 1.d4 c5 (or 1...Nf6 and 2...c5 maybe).  You'll find out right away what kind of player you're up against depending on whether they push to d5 or play 2.c3 or something like that.  You could try a kind of Old Benoni or Full Benoni or Old Indian or whatever they're called depending on White's response (mixing 1...c5 with ...e5).
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #40 - 08/08/21 at 13:24:52
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bragesjo wrote on 06/26/20 at 15:47:23:
I gave up Nimzo/Bogo combo in over the board games becouse most club players play London or Colle.


I had this problem too. My solution (OTB and online) is
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.c4 dxc4 4.e3 Bg4
and I can play setups without e6 against the
Queens Pawn specials.

This QGA-line is covered in 
Delchev - Semkov
Understanding the Queen's Gambit Accepted.
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #39 - 08/07/21 at 20:17:06
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Arnaudov wrote on 02/11/20 at 11:19:49:
Yes, it looks like a Ragozin/Nimzo mix would be a good match.


The Winawer (or McCutcheon) French, Ragozin/Vienna, Nimzo-Indian defense, and Mikenas line vs. the English.

All lines feature ...e6, ...d5, ...Bb4, and possibly ...Nf6.
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #38 - 08/06/21 at 13:49:26
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The Armenian GM's who played French used to always go for the QGD against 1.d4, I heard Danny King commenting that this was also a good combination
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #37 - 06/26/20 at 15:47:23
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I gave up Nimzo/Bogo combo in over the board games becouse most club players play London or Colle. Instead I play Ragozin via Queens Gambit move order since without a pawn commited to e6 I can play more agressive lines vs London and Colle. I transpose to Nimzo vs several lines.

However there is nothing wrong with e6 setups and I played it for several years I wanted variation and I dont recommend anyone to changed main defence becouse of dpawn specials.
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #36 - 06/25/20 at 10:09:57
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RoleyPoley wrote on 06/25/20 at 08:21:20:
Whatever opening you play via 1.e6 is going to hit up against the same problem isnt it?
Precisely.

Mtal wrote on 06/24/20 at 03:30:50:
If i had unlimited time, I thinkni would chose the semi-slav.
But the people who play London or Colle setups against your Dutch aren't going to enter complex theoretical lines against the Semi-Slav; they're going to play London or Colle setups against that too.


RoleyPoley wrote on 06/25/20 at 08:21:20:
If you already play classical or stonewall system and like it against g3 set ups, then presumably you can continue to use it and only learn a new line against the London/Colle set ups instead of a whole new variation on top of that
This seems like a good solution, because if you do learn, say, the Semi-Slav, you're not solving the problem that's bothering you at the moment, you're just shifting it onto different territory.
  
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Re: Which 1 d4 Defense is Most Like the French?
Reply #35 - 06/25/20 at 08:21:20
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Mtal wrote on 06/25/20 at 03:26:08:
What I meant was that I hardly get any games with g3 being played. I just get a little board playimg against london and colle set ups over and over.


I'm not sure i follow. Whatever opening you play via 1.e6 is going to hit up against the same problem isnt it? People play the London and Colle set ups primarily because they can play it against all or most of black's set ups.

If you already play classical or stonewall system and like it against g3 set ups, then presumably you can continue to use it and only learn a new line against the London/Colle set ups instead of a whole new variation on top of that (especially as in another thread you talked about learning new openings with white and had a concern about whether you had the time to do so.

  

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