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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Veresov: Refutation? (Read 27606 times)
dmp4373
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #24 - 08/05/08 at 01:28:17
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If players in this section were looking for what's best, they wouldn't be looking in this thread, or even in this section! Smiley
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #23 - 08/04/08 at 14:59:08
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Macca wrote on 08/04/08 at 07:32:59:
So, 4.f3 it is then.

Always follow your instincts!


Yes, don't listen to Prié when he says that 4. Qd3 is probably best ...
  
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dmp4373
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #22 - 08/04/08 at 14:56:17
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Macca wrote on 08/04/08 at 07:32:59:
So, 4.f3 it is then.

Always follow your instincts!


I've been looking at this also recently and have come to the conclusion that this is one of those opening lines that gets negative publicity, but offers White an opportunity. By that I mean its value is its obscurity while giving White something sharp to work with. 

The lines I'm looking at allow Black easy equality and maybe even a slight advantage, but the White side is easier to play and because Black so rarely sees it, White will be far better prepared for moves 12-20. And that's where he gets the advantage. For the opening purest that's bad strategy, but for practical reasons it works well in OTB play.
  
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Macca
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #21 - 08/04/08 at 07:32:59
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So, 4.f3 it is then.

Always follow your instincts!
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #20 - 07/31/08 at 17:06:26
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Macca wrote on 07/30/08 at 09:46:19:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 Nbd7 4.Qd3 is OK for White

Eric's July update arrives just in time! Wink
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #19 - 07/30/08 at 11:56:07
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Isn't the A-Z of the Veresov already covered on ChessPublishing? Eric considers 4 e3 to be a little dubious, if I understand correctly. Wink
  
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TimS
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #18 - 07/30/08 at 10:22:21
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realpolitik wrote on 07/29/08 at 18:17:12:
sorry yes it was rizzitano i meant. well against 4e3 black can play e6 and c5, doubt if white can claim an advantage here. and after 4Qd3 rizzitano suggests 4...h6 5Bh4 e6 6e4 de 7Nxe4 Be7 with a fairly level position.

My game followed such a line, albeit by transposition: 4.e3 c5 5.Nf3 e6 6.Be2 (6.Bd3 c4 didn't look very promising) Be7 7.0-0 0-0 8.Re1 (my plan was to complete development ahead of Black and then advance in the centre, but Black forestalled this by going in for exchanges) 8...h6 9.Bh4 Ne4 10.Bxe7 Nxc3 (10...Qxe7!?) 11.Bxd8 Nxd1 12.Raxd1 (enough for a small edge, in my view, but Fritz11 much prefers 12.Be7) 12...Rxd8 13.dxc5 Nxc5 14.c4 += Spanton (2007) - Bodenstein (2062), Oberjoch 2008.
  
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Macca
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #17 - 07/30/08 at 09:46:19
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I wasn't going to join in as there's an older thread on early moves in the Veresov. However, as I'm bored at "work": 

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 Nbd7 4.Qd3 is OK for White - after B plays e6 then dxe in response W's e4 we have a French Burn, hardly dangerous for White even after the slightly odd Qd3. 

4.f3 is more interesting though, and although 4...c6 with ...e5 in mind is a good response, so long as White is aware of dangerous Black ideas such as ...Ba3 there are some double-edged variations not in the books which White can employ that, although objectively may be a little better for Black, are so complicated that the better prepared player (White!) has good chances of an advantage. Don't expect to see them at Hector's level though...
  
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realpolitik
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #16 - 07/29/08 at 18:17:12
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sorry yes it was rizzitano i meant. well against 4e3 black can play e6 and c5, doubt if white can claim an advantage here. and after 4Qd3 rizzitano suggests 4...h6 5Bh4 e6 6e4 de 7Nxe4 Be7 with a fairly level position.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #15 - 07/29/08 at 17:20:08
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TimS wrote on 07/29/08 at 17:12:04:
realpolitik wrote on 07/29/08 at 16:53:21:
I used to play the Veresov occasionally, then I realised that its just not very good. White needs to find something against 1d4 d5 2Nc3 Nf6 3Bg5 Nbd7 4f3 c6 with the idea to play a quick e5. was interesting to see this recommended by vigorito in his repertoire book for black against d4

I think 4.f3 is premature. Last time I played the Veresov, which was last month, I preferred 4.e3 (and was gratified to find afterwards it's recommended by Nigel Davies in his Veresov book).


Hmm, no love for Jonny.  One might think that he's probably the strongest player who regularly (though not all the time) plays the Veresov, and he seems to reliably play 4. Qd3, therefore there should be a good chance that it's the best move.

BTW, that line recommended by Rizzitano (if that's what you meant) has been the main line against 4. f3 for decades.
  
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TimS
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #14 - 07/29/08 at 17:12:04
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realpolitik wrote on 07/29/08 at 16:53:21:
I used to play the Veresov occasionally, then I realised that its just not very good. White needs to find something against 1d4 d5 2Nc3 Nf6 3Bg5 Nbd7 4f3 c6 with the idea to play a quick e5. was interesting to see this recommended by vigorito in his repertoire book for black against d4

I think 4.f3 is premature. Last time I played the Veresov, which was last month, I preferred 4.e3 (and was gratified to find afterwards it's recommended by Nigel Davies in his Veresov book).
  
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realpolitik
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #13 - 07/29/08 at 16:53:21
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I used to play the Veresov occasionally, then I realised that its just not very good. White needs to find something against 1d4 d5 2Nc3 Nf6 3Bg5 Nbd7 4f3 c6 with the idea to play a quick e5. was interesting to see this recommended by vigorito in his repertoire book for black against d4
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #12 - 07/29/08 at 16:17:57
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Well, surely someone interested in playing the Veresov should be looking at Hector's games.  I tend to refer to 3...Nbd7 4. Qd3 as the Hector Variation ...
  
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knightmare
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #11 - 07/29/08 at 14:33:19
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TimS wrote on 07/27/08 at 10:09:07:
JN wrote on 07/27/08 at 07:57:48:
White seems to be (at least a bit) worse in all lines after 3.- c5!

If so, then the Chigorin must be busted as White is essentially playing it with an extra tempo


The Veresov IMHO is simply desperately in need of a "Hero". I guess Moro would need to play 1 single game (and win) to create interest
The same statements were written and quoted about the Chigorin before Moro began to use it. There's a lot of space for improvement in many of those offbeat openings. And these strange knight-moves seem to get more attention recently.
  
ELO 2060. Corr.: 2190. Which casts doubts if I ever knew what I was doing. At least on the Board.
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Re: Veresov: Refutation?
Reply #10 - 07/29/08 at 13:27:36
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At the very same day, and at the exact same time as I wrote my last post in this thread, GM Hector played a game in Politiken Cup against GM Evdokimov. The game went 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 c5 4.Bf6 gf6 5. e3 and Hector went on to win the game in just 32 moves. His 8.Nf3 appears to be a new move. Both Davies and Cox only investigate 8.0-0-0. In Hector-Evdokimov white goes on to castle kingside instead. Perhaps there is hope for white in the 3.- c5 line afterall..!? The game can be found here: http://www.ksu.dk/politiken_cup//live/1/live.aspx?aar=2008 [scroll down].
  
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