ArKheiN wrote on 02/04/09 at 09:47:13:


1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 f5 4.Bg5 a6

And now:

5.f3 Nf6  

There really is no way to force Black to capture that f4 3 pawn.  Why should Black help us out?

ArKheiN wrote on 02/04/09 at 10:12:48:


I took this post from the other thread on the BDG.

~ I think it is easy to prove this is worse for White. I am trying my best as White.  Playing for a win (as always!)

~ I am playing White pieces (and am a white player!)and I am trying to see what I can learn from this BGD. So far, the lessons learned is to not play it again.

~ I'm not having all that much fun with it.  The resultant position is miserable.

I do not (yet?) see any way for White to even gain true equality and I do not (yet?) see how this would be helping me learn to play better chess.   

The pieces are very difficult to coordinate because the pawn structure is horrible.  My biggest fear is that I might actually be losing knowledge playing this.   







6.Qd2 c5!?

1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 f5 4. Bg5 a6!?

Before I embarrass myself by giving my next set of moves, what type of compensation is here?  What move would a BDG'er toss out as White here? 

I did not like the look of 4.f3 e5 but without knowing what am I supposed to be aiming for I figured here & now I was supposed to go Whole Hog and played "the move" because what else is there to play?




It's been days now, but my mouth still tastes like snake oil.


To be clear, the game is ongoing, I am at move 12, and am not looking for deep analysis.  Just wondering if there was some "theory" and a "tabiya" to see where I turned off the solid BGD path that leads to glorious victory for the player of the White pieces.

Hi Kylemeister,

I have checked the games of the players you mentioned and it appears that they were used some time ago and not really repeated.

This leads me to suspect that they were generally experiments with suprise value and if the line was a good one how is it that there is only a handful of games on Chessbase where both players a graded over 2400 and not very recent at that.

Who is the strongest player who regularly plays this line?? especially since  good anti-dutch lines are so popular these days.

I agree that  4 Bf4 seems to be the most logical move but I can't see the advantage if black avoids moving Nc6 too early allowing Bb5. I will nethertheless check out ArKheiN's suggestion that 4 Bg5 gives white compensation although I am not believing it at the moment.

Regards,
Nelson 

ArKheiN wrote on 02/02/09 at 22:07:07:


After all the fumferry here I got caught up in I decided to give the BDG a punt in a CC game (5o days/10 moves on ICC).   My opponent played this variation as Black.  1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe 3.Nc3 f5   
Game is on going.   As White, I am 400+ higher rated and my postion is now miserable and a loss looks to be on the horizons!  

Seriously.  I will post it when finished for a good laugh at my expense (and my rating  )  I hope one day someone will show me where my "compensation" was and how I was supposed to use it.

Is there actual theory in this line?      Feels like I effed up a Dutch/Staunton attack and let him play two moves, or something silly.

1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 f5 is maybe playable, but positionnally bad (white's squares weakened for ever), and doesn't developp anything. White has tried many moves with more or less success (4.f3, 4.Bg5, 4.Bc4, 4.Bf4, 4.Nh3), and the most popular has been 4.f3, which is good against 4..Nf6 or 4..exf3. But I think 4..e5 is good here, and it's the reason I would probably play 4.Bg5 here (prevent ..e5 and that move is often played against a future Nf6 anyway), followed by f3. Impossible to prove who is better here but I would say that White has at least sufficient compensations for the pawn.

Nelson wrote on 02/02/09 at 20:28:07:


Is there a particular reason to think that ECO and NCO (as well as people like Gelfand, Rublevsky and Benjamin who have played it as White) are wrong to think that it offers White compensation?

SWJediknight wrote on 01/19/09 at 18:44:47:


I certainly agree that Black is more than fine after 5.Bc4 but I'm not so sure 5.Bf4 is much better.  I have to admit though to not knowing any analysis of the move.  What should White do after say 5.Bf4 Bf5?

Even without sight of board, I can tell you that the line 1 d4 Nf6 2 Nc3 d5 3 e4 Nxe4 4 Nxe4 de4 5 Bc4 g6 6 f3? is not very good. I suggest 6 Be3, 7 000 8 Qd2 aiming to attack on the Kingside.