Heuristic wrote on 05/19/20 at 12:02:50:

That may be why some people had the (apparently brilliant) idea of playing Nd7 followed by f6, also a standard plan in the delayed exchange Ruy. Knight on d7 can be rerouted to e6. If you're that sure Black is having a hard time in this line, it can't be difficult to develop a mini-repertoire 'Busting the Berlin', a lot of (super-)GMs will be very interested, but I don't think you've given a single variation in this thread.

I want to reiterate the fact that in the d3, Bc5, Bxc6 line. Black needs to play a purely defensive move protecting e5, losing a tempo of sorts. And since the position is not closed, it matters. White on the other hand will develop harmoniously.

Even if f6 seems strange in the Ruy Exchange, blacks defence to e5 is more solid since white's light squared bishop is taken off the board. defending e5 with the bishop or queen is not optimal against c3, d4 lines, which black is forced to in a Berlin Bxc6

halbstark wrote on 05/18/20 at 09:56:32:


I agree, I was initially going to say that Black had a clearly better version of the Anti-Berlin because his Bishop is better placed, but then I remembered the relevant ...Qe7 plan, but wasn't sure on how important having this option is.

fjd wrote on 05/18/20 at 08:26:22:


Just a few quick thoughts: I guess both lines are around equal, but I would (slightly) prefer the bishop on e7. The c5-square is not really ideal for the bishop. It might come under attack with Nb3 or b2-b4 and it blocks the c5-square for either the c6-pawn (playing the c6-c5 seems to be quite often a decent idea to win influence in the center) or the Knight. Nd7 is a pretty automatic move in this structures as the knight is badly placed on f6 with the e4 so overprotected and to have the option to park the knight on c5 instead of f8 might be a little bit more flexible.

The only real downside of the bishop on e7 as far as I can tell is the missing option of going Be6, Nd7, Qe7 and 0-0-0 without losing any more tempi, which is a plan I really like in the Berlin version. But objectively I guess this shouldn´t really make a huge difference.

fjd wrote on 05/17/20 at 22:41:42:


I guess it is clearly useful to have the pawn on a6, so it should be a better version for black, but it is really not the kind of move "black will play anyway."

Jack Hughes wrote on 05/17/20 at 11:38:31:


The only difference is the inclusion of a6, so I would say that it's a worse line since black will play that move anyway (or a5)

Heuristic wrote on 05/15/20 at 19:59:18:



Uhhhh what line? I mean Black isn't struggling anywhere in the Berlin.

So no, you cannot reach the position via transposition from the Exchange Ruy since black already has a knight on f6 in the d3 Berlin.

White basically wins a tempo on e5 for free. but not a pure tempo in the sense of making two moves in a row