Computer evaluations are all very well, but ultimately, unless you have Toilet Fritz, you have to play the resultant positions. And therein lies the rub, despite whatever your computer tells you. In most of the main lines, White's play is so much easier than Black's, and this is something your computer won't tell you, since it has no conception of ease or difficulty. However, for practical pay, this is a huge consideration.
So, switch off your computer for a bit, and have a look at the positions, and ask yourself, am I happy to play these lines? Does my position have scope? Is there margin for error? Am I granting my opponent a risk-free edge? Not, oh this is +0.27...that's just spectacularly useless.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/31/07 at 21:45:39:

Smyslov_Fan I think your contributions to this topic are only designed to attak someone.If you just have a closer look at your contributions you might maybe understand,that they dont belong to this topic,because we discuss here lines ,moves and positions and not why the Bpg is bad.
And to convince somebody is really not my intention.Everyone has his own brain to think.If I find out something new with the help of engines rated 2900-3100 Elo I just show the results here.Here are many players who convince with their ideas not only me in some positions,but also the engines.Maybe you can learn something from them.
Also you talk about your opinion as if this is the opinion of all the members here

"

• Udav claims that the Budapest Gambit is not well explored.

There have been books written about the Budapest in several languages, world champions from Alekhine to Kasparov have analyzed it, and it's been played for about 80 years in a variety of tournaments.  This opening has been analyzed to death. "

Aha ,ok I think we can stop plaing chess,because all the openings have been analyzed a lot and white is slight better in many of the openings.Maybe black has just to resign?
Sorry ,Smyslov_Fan, I really dont want to have trouble with you,but your preference to attak me allways,when you hear something like the Bpg is not bad is annoying.Just try to analyze as the other members to convince someone and attak variations and not the players!

Udav18 wrote on 07/31/07 at 11:03:54:


You are contradicting yourself. Having enough compensation for the pawn means equality, White being somewhat better means not entirely enough. In any case, when claiming compensation, one must concretely explain, where that compensation comes from. Nothing is as superficial as "with an attack for the invested material."

Anyhow, 14...Be6 15.Nd4 Qd7 (please, why do these move deserve exclamation marks?) 16.Nxe6 Nxe6 17.Qd2 (what is the idea, Willempie?) Nxf4 18.gxf4 Qg4 does offer something concrete: the White's king's position is a bit airy. I can see Black transferring his rooks to the kingside. If the knight also gets involved (but that is quite troublesome due to Bg2), White faces severe difficulties. A sample line is 19.e3 Rae8 20.Rab1 Nd8 21.Kh1 b6 22.Rg1 Qh4. I would say, that the burden of proof is on White, to defend at one hand and converting the extra pawn at the other hand.
But this cannot be the last word, never when playing a gambit. It obliges us, to find improvements for the defender. Always keep two points in mind: the defender can stubbornly hang on to the extra pawn, but also return it to obtain some positional advantages. In this particular variation it is important to find out, if White can return the c4-pawn, but keep and activate the pair of bishops.

It would convince me,if you show me a clear line ,where white is much better,which cant be refuted.
Also the "main line" if you can call it like this ,has some mistakes,which I have showed some time ago.
I am not someone,who say that black is better or something stupid like this,but i only want to say that the Bpg is a solid opening ,where white has a slight advantage(if white stay alive until the middlegame),which is the case in every opening.
But it is really a pity that many players believe ,that the Bdpg is a bad opening only because many Bdpg-players just play it without the knowledge you need in such an opening , lose and make a bad score with black.
To look at a databse is of course helpful ,if you start a new opening,but not to question the results and moves,which were made and just believe that the opening is bad,because white has won often is primitive and not really what the chessworld needs.
The Bpg isnt explored well enough and it is to early to say that it is a bad opening for black.

THE END

right,but black has also a lot of chances,so it is not really possible to say that white is just better.Well the engine might show +=,but it is really not enough to convince someone , even our trainer,who is an GM would play this position as black .

Petro"Of course white should play 7.e3 and not 7.a3?! throwing a full tempo on the misplaced bishop on b4. Frankly I don't really see what atracts players to the black side of this position, but would surely love to be enlightened on that. I find Cox's suggestions in his d4 book convincing enough but maybe there are some new ideas for black."
As I said before black has a lot of ideas to fight for a win.
Just look at the database and look how often black could win with different ideas.Of course white has also a lot of wins,but that is the case with all the openings!
by the way 7.a3 has not only the intention to attak blacks bishop,but it also follows the general plan to push the c pawn.
To  do this ,white has often to play a3+b4+c5.
7.e3 is also a good move with other ideas as Nb3 and then a3 not to play for the plan with c5 ,but to play for centralisation and make some weaknesses on the queenside  (forcing black to make  dubble-pawn  by exchanging this bishop.)

Udav18 wrote on 07/31/07 at 08:58:22:


Of course white should play 7.e3 and not 7.a3?! throwing a full tempo on the misplaced bishop on b4. Frankly I don't really see what atracts players to the black side of this position, but would surely love to be enlightened on that. I find Cox's suggestions in his d4 book convincing enough but maybe there are some new ideas for black.