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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7 (Read 99723 times)
Klick
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #72 - 11/16/08 at 07:29:06
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It took me a while to check many transpositions, which are a bit bewildering. I haven't been able to find back the idea to leave the bishops on the original square indeed in my small library. For one thing in this thread Dji has argued that White should not play Rf1-d1 too early. So I wonder why Black in this sequence should not just play 10...Bb7 (iso Be7) and be happy that he has avoided the 10.Bf4, 11.Rad1 setup.
 

You are entirely right. Does white have to show his cards with Rfd1, Be3, Bf4 or a4 and can black use his flexibility to react accordingly? As far as I recall we`ve shown previously that Rfd1 turns out fine for black.

In case of 9.Bf4 b5 10.Bb3 b4 might very well work due to the "saved" tempo. At least my brief analysis looks decent for black.

Palkovi`s 9.a4 looks like it might be white`s best try.

I am not sure about the assesment of the line I gave, but if black comfortably can go 10.. Bb7 it`s not that relevant at the moment. RR is about materially equal to Q+P and black has a slight initiative so I think it`s fair to give it the unclear sign.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #71 - 11/14/08 at 01:30:53
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It took me a while to check many transpositions, which are a bit bewildering. I haven't been able to find back the idea to leave the bishops on the original square indeed in my small library. For one thing in this thread Dji has argued that White should not play Rf1-d1 too early. So I wonder why Black in this sequence should not just play 10...Bb7 (iso Be7) and be happy that he has avoided the 10.Bf4, 11.Rad1 setup.
To answer your remark first: I am not so sure about 11.e5 dxe5 12.Nxe5 Qb6 (Qc7? 13.Nxf7) 13.Qf3 0-0 as two rooks usually more than match the queen: 14.Be3 Bc5 15.Qxa8 Bb7 16.Nxd7 Nxd7 17.Qxf8+ Nxf8 18.Bxc5 Qxc5 19.Rd3 and I disagree with Fritz' -+.
Instead Palkovi dislikes the normal 11.Bf4 because of Qb6.

So consequent is 9.Bf4 and b5 (but can Black do without this?) 10.Bb3 and is b4 possible now?

Palkovi makes another point. Because of the early ...Nbd7 White might consider a2-a4, eg 9.a4 Be7 10.Rd1 0-0 (Qa5 11.Bd2 idea Qc5? 12.b4 Qxb4 13.Nb5) 11.Bf4 (11.e5 dxe5 12.Nxe5 Qa5 13.Bf4) 11.Bf4 Qc7 12.Rac1 (12.e5) Nh5 13.Be3 Nhf6 14.b4 Jakubowski-Zych, POLch 1994.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #70 - 11/12/08 at 23:19:24
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Quickly reading through the topic, I don`t think there has been any discussion of the Finegold move-order, i.e. postponing Bc8-b7: 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 d6 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bc4 Nf6 7.0-0 a6 8.Qe2 Nbd7 




What do we think of it? I assume that the bishop can prove useful on c8 in some lines, defending d7 and saving a tempo that can be used elsewhere. I`ve had a hard time finding anything on it on the internet, including games. Just analysing quickly I see that the brute force variation 9.Rd1 b5 10.Bb3 Be7 11.e5!? dxe 12.Nxe5 Qb6 13.Qf3 fails due to 13...0-0. 

On the face of it 13.Be3 looks like a better attempt, but black still seems to be doing ok after 13..Qb7

I know Bob Ciaffone & Ben Finegold have written a book on this line but it seems hard to come by. John Watson seems to approve of both the book and the variation in his review on http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_jw/jw_smith_morra_gambit.html

I`ve put this post in this thread due to the apparent similarities.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #69 - 08/22/07 at 20:33:47
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Because of Black's 4th move this game belongs in the ...Nge7 thread, where we discussed the Sacharov sac.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #68 - 08/22/07 at 09:33:46
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Kamsky's interesting idea!


[Event "14th Ordix Open"]
[Site "Mainz GER"]
[Date "2007.08.18"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Negele, M."]
[Black "Kamsky, G."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "2245"]
[BlackElo "2718"]
[PlyCount "76"]
[EventDate "2007.08.18"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2007.08.20"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 e6 7. O-O Nge7 8.
Bg5 b5 9. Bb3 Bb7 10. Qe2?! dubious but what else Nd4? Qb8 11. Rfe1 Ng6 12. Rad1 Bc5 13. e5 h6 14. Bc1 Bb4
15. Bc2 Nce7 16. Rd4 Bxc3 17. bxc3 Bd5 18. Ba3 Qb7 19. Rxd5 Nxd5 20. Bxg6 fxg6
21. Qe4 Kf7 22. Nh4 Rhc8 23. Qxg6+ Kg8 24. Bc1 d6 25. exd6 Qf7 26. Qg4 Rc4 27.
Re4 Nf6 28. Rxc4 Nxg4 29. Rxg4 g5 30. Nf3 Qf5 31. Rd4 Qc2 32. Bd2 e5 33. Rd5 e4
34. Ne1 Qxa2 35. Rd4 Rd8 36. h4 Qe6 37. hxg5 hxg5 38. Bxg5 Rxd6 0-1

  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #67 - 08/15/07 at 17:43:26
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Sorry for Palliser's anti-Morra Cool
What Palliser recommande against Alapine ?
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #66 - 08/15/07 at 16:32:41
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urusov wrote on 08/15/07 at 16:02:23:
FYI: Richard Palliser covers this line for Black in the recent book "Fighting the Anti-Sicilians" (Everyman 2007).  I have not looked closely at his analysis or compared it to what's posted here, but it does look safe enough for Black with an early ...Nge7.

Palliser's book is very good, by the way, and he offers a number of anti-"anti-Sicilian" lines that feature the queenside fianchetto idea with ...a6, ...e6, ...b5, ...Bb7 (including against 2.Nc3 transpositions and the Grand Prix).  So if you want to build a repertoire around this set-up, he's your man.


Sure, but Dji and I are having fun proving that Black's task is not easy at all, if he plays a6, e6, b5 and Bb7 against the Morra. White's key move after ...Nge7 of course is Bc1-g5 immediately, forcing a weakness after either ...f6 and ...h6. What I have learned the last few weeks is how dangerous that Nd5 sac is.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #65 - 08/15/07 at 16:02:23
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FYI: Richard Palliser covers this line for Black in the recent book "Fighting the Anti-Sicilians" (Everyman 2007).  I have not looked closely at his analysis or compared it to what's posted here, but it does look safe enough for Black with an early ...Nge7.

Palliser's book is very good, by the way, and he offers a number of anti-"anti-Sicilian" lines that feature the queenside fianchetto idea with ...a6, ...e6, ...b5, ...Bb7 (including against 2.Nc3 transpositions and the Grand Prix).  So if you want to build a repertoire around this set-up, he's your man.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #64 - 08/15/07 at 15:29:59
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My last post was a mistake Embarrassed
« Last Edit: 08/15/07 at 17:35:53 by Dji »  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #63 - 08/15/07 at 15:20:27
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MNb wrote on 08/14/07 at 20:58:39:
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 a6 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bc4 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.O-O 
b4 9.Nd5 exd5 10.exd5 Bd6 11.Re1+ Ne7 12.Ng5 O-O 13.Qh5 h6 14.Ne4 Qc7 15.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 16.Kh1 Qe5 17.Bg5 Nxd5 Zelic-Sermek, Makarska 1995, 18.Rad1! wins:

Thrue and one again Smiley

Quote:

We cannot blame Zelic for overlooking a move like 18.Rad1, but if Langrock does not mention it, I question the thoroughness of his research (of course there is nothing in Palkovi, he mainly seems to recycle old Flesch' material).


Janos Flesch was a fantastic player and a precursor of the Morra but now everybody  write his own book with the (big)help of precedant books!
It's true there's many omittions but as a whole Langrock did good work.
It's particulary true in the ussr's var.  . he also rehabilited the fianchetto's var and even the Chacogo's var.
So there's still plenty ofwork to do in the gambit Morra!

Quote:

after 11...Kf8 White may investigate 12.Nd4 iso 12.Qd4, eg 12.Nd4 Qc7 13.Nf5 Bxh2+ 14.Kh1 Be5 15.Qg4 g6 16.Rxe5 gxf5 17.Qf4 +-. It is possible though, that Black can defend better.

Can black play 12.Nd4 g6  ?

Quote:

Then there is 13...Nf6 (iso 13...f6) 14.Re2 Na6 15.Rae1 (simple, likeable chess; you have an open file against the enemy king, so double your rooks) Bc5 (I have not looked at Nc5 yet, but don't think this will save Black; White can even afford to play 16.Bc2) 16.Bxf6 Qxf6 17.Ne5 Qf5 18.Qd2 (18.Qh4 probably will do as well) Jenull-Baumann, corr 2003 and Black can keep on fighting with d6 19.Bc2 Qxe5 20.Rxe5 dxe5 21.Rxe5. White's reduced material will make it harder to harass Black's king, but that same King has long term safety problems.

Maybe 18.Qd2 d6 19.Qg5!? g6 20.Qh6+ Kg8 21.Nd3 Qc8 22.Re7 Qf8 23.Qd2 is more to the point
Quote:

Finally there is an interesting move order question.

Van Dyck,M (2017) - Hoeksema,H (2378) [B21]
Gent Open (2), 15.07.2006
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.0–0 b4 9.Nd5 exd5 10.Re1 d6 11.e5 Ne7 12.Bf4 Ng6 13.exd6+ Kd7 14.Nd4 Nxf4 15.Qg4+ Kxd6 16.Qxf4+ Kc5 17.Rac1+ Kb6 18.Ne6 Qf6 19.Qe3+ d4 20.Nxd4 Bc5 21.Rxc5 Kxc5 22.Ne6+ Kd6 23.Qc5+ Kd7 24.Rd1+ Ke8 25.Nc7# 1–0

A little embarrassing for Black, considering the rating gap. White missed 11.Ba4+ Nd7 12.e5 winning.
10...Bc5 is not convincing imo: 11.Bg5 f6 12.exd5+ Kf8 13.Bf4 Ne7 14.d6 Ng6 15.Bg3 and Black faces the same problems as above.
So 10...Bd6 11.exd5+ remains, which just transposes.


I think 10.Re1 is entirely playable and suffisant to give black a goood headache but  black have an  extra option  10...Be7 11.ed5 d6 12.Qd4 Nf6 13.Qb4 Bc8 14.Bf4 0-0 15.Re7 Qe7 16.Bd6 Qd8 17.Be7 Nd5 18.Bd5 Qd5 19.Bf8 Nc6 20.Qc5 Be6 21.Qd5 Bd5 22.Bc5 Bf3 23.gf3 Ne5 with some compensation
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #62 - 08/14/07 at 20:58:39
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1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 a6 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bc4 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.O-O 
b4 9.Nd5 exd5 10.exd5 Bd6 11.Re1+ Ne7 12.Ng5 O-O 13.Qh5 h6 14.Ne4 Qc7 15.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 16.Kh1 Qe5 17.Bg5 Nxd5 Zelic-Sermek, Makarska 1995, 18.Rad1! wins:
a)18...Bf4 18.Bxd5 Bxd5 19.Nf6+.
b)18...Qxb2 19.Rxd5! Bxd5 20.Bxd5 Nc6 21.Nf6+.
c)18...Qf5 19.Qxh2 Nb6 20.Bc2.
d)18...Nf4 19.Qxh2 Bxe4 20.Bxf4 Qf5 21.Re3.

We cannot blame Zelic for overlooking a move like 18.Rad1, but if Langrock does not mention it, I question the thoroughness of his research (of course there is nothing in Palkovi, he mainly seems to recycle old Flesch' material).

After 11...Kf8 White may investigate 12.Nd4 iso 12.Qd4, eg 12.Nd4 Qc7 13.Nf5 Bxh2+ 14.Kh1 Be5 15.Qg4 g6 16.Rxe5 gxf5 17.Qf4 +-. It is possible though, that Black can defend better.

I am not entirely sure about 12.Qd4: a5 (peculiar, that this is best, but I could not find an improvement for Black) 13.Bg5 f6 14.Bf4 Ra6 (Bxf4!? 15.Qxf4 Qb6 16.Rac1 is not clear yet) 15.Re2 Ne7 16.Rae1 Nf5 (iso Sakai's Nc8) 17.Qe4 Bxf4 18.Qxf5 Bd6 19.Qh5 g6 20.Qh6+ Kf7 21.Re7+ wins.

Then there is 13...Nf6 (iso 13...f6) 14.Re2 Na6 15.Rae1 (simple, likeable chess; you have an open file against the enemy king, so double your rooks) Bc5 (I have not looked at Nc5 yet, but don't think this will save Black; White can even afford to play 16.Bc2) 16.Bxf6 Qxf6 17.Ne5 Qf5 18.Qd2 (18.Qh4 probably will do as well) Jenull-Baumann, corr 2003 and Black can keep on fighting with d6 19.Bc2 Qxe5 20.Rxe5 dxe5 21.Rxe5. White's reduced material will make it harder to harass Black's king, but that same King has long term safety problems.

Finally there is an interesting move order question.

Van Dyck,M (2017) - Hoeksema,H (2378) [B21]
Gent Open (2), 15.07.2006
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.0–0 b4 9.Nd5 exd5 10.Re1 d6 11.e5 Ne7 12.Bf4 Ng6 13.exd6+ Kd7 14.Nd4 Nxf4 15.Qg4+ Kxd6 16.Qxf4+ Kc5 17.Rac1+ Kb6 18.Ne6 Qf6 19.Qe3+ d4 20.Nxd4 Bc5 21.Rxc5 Kxc5 22.Ne6+ Kd6 23.Qc5+ Kd7 24.Rd1+ Ke8 25.Nc7# 1–0

A little embarrassing for Black, considering the rating gap. White missed 11.Ba4+ Nd7 12.e5 winning.
10...Bc5 is not convincing imo: 11.Bg5 f6 12.exd5+ Kf8 13.Bf4 Ne7 14.d6 Ng6 15.Bg3 and Black faces the same problems as above.
So 10...Bd6 11.exd5+ remains, which just transposes.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #61 - 08/13/07 at 09:19:50
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In more of the book of Langrock I found many analyses on Internet. I cannot give them because of the possible royalties but blacks are not well!

[Event "Makaraska"]
[Site "corr Chessfriend.com"]
[Date "1995.??.??"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Zelic"]
[Black "Sermek"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "1983"]
[BlackElo "2568"]
[Annotator "Dji"]
[PlyCount "45"]
[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
[Source "Chess Mail Ltd"]
[SourceDate "2005.07.27"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 a6 5. Nf3 e6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. O-O
b4 9. Nd5 exd5 10. exd5 Bd6 11. Re1+ Ne7 (11... Kf8 12. Qd4 a5 13. Bg5 f6 14.
Bf4 Ra6 15. Re2 Ne7 16. Rae1 Nc8 17. Bh6 gxh6 18. Re8+ Qxe8 19. Qxf6+ Qf7 20.
Qxh8+ Qg8 21. Qf6+ Qf7 22. Qh8+ Qg8 23. Re8+ Kxe8 24. Qxg8+ Bf8 25. Ne5 Rf6 26.
Qh8 Ke7 27. Qxh7+ Kd8 28. Ng6 Kc7 29. Nxf8 Rxf8 30. Qxh6 Re8 31. Qc1+ Kb6 32.
h4 Na6 33. h5 Nc5 34. h6 Nd6 35. h7 Nxb3 36. Qh6 Kc5 37. axb3 Nf7 38. Qc1+ Kb6
39. d6 {1-0  corr. Jenull-Sakai 2003}) 12. Ng5 O-O 13. Qh5 h6 14. Ne4 Qc7 15.
Bxh6 Bxh2+ 16. Kh1 Qe5 17. Bg5 Nxd5 18. Bxd5 Qxd5 19. Qxh2 Qf5 {
? Langrock but i think that others moves are not better.} (19... Nc6 20. Nf6+
gxf6 21. Bxf6 Qh5 22. Qxh5 Rfe8 23. Qh8#) (19... f6 20. Bf4 (20. Rad1 {
is not  bad too} 20... Qxe4 21. Rxe4 Bxe4 22. Bf4 Bf5 (22... Nc6 23. Rxd7 (23.
Qh3 Rae8 24. Rxd7 Ne5 25. Qb3+ Kh7 26. Ra7) 23... Bf5 24. Rb7)) 20... Nc6 21.
Nd6 {here langrock stop and conclude 'with initiative'} 21... Ne5 22. Rad1 Nd3
23. Kg1 Nxe1 24. Rxd5 Bxd5 25. Qh5 Bxa2 26. Nf5 Rf7 27. Qg6 Kh8 28. Bd2 a5 29.
Bxe1 {whites are winning}) 20. Be7 Bxe4 21. Bxf8 Nc6 22. Bd6 {
''with a clear advantage'' Langrock. but maybe Bxg7 is even better(Dji)} (22.
Bxg7 Kxg7 23. Qg3+ Kf8 (23... Qg6 24. Rxe4) 24. Qh4 Re8 25. f3) 22... Bd5 23.
Re3 (23. Kg1 !? {Langrock}) (23. Qg3 {is not bad too}) *

  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #60 - 08/13/07 at 06:53:16
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Sevenviolets wrote on 10/15/06 at 08:38:37:
1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 and as for 8.0-0 b4? 9.Nd5!! there are long forced lines to 1-0 after accepting the sacrifice with 9..exd5 10.exd5+- Black can deviate with 9..Nc6 but after 10.Re1, white has dangerous initiative.


This line is dealt with in depth by Langrock. I have not checked his analysis myself so I don's know how good it is. Nevertheless I would not want to play either side without having a long look at the analysis by Langrock.

He gives 10..Bd6 11. Re1+ Ne7 12. Ng5 0-0 13. Qh5 h6 14.Ne4 Qc7 15.Bh6 with lots more analysis (If it does not stack up 15. Nf6 is good enough to draw.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #59 - 08/12/07 at 22:11:52
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MNb wrote on 08/12/07 at 20:25:28:
Of course I had looked at 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 Ne7 7.Bg5 b5 8.Bb3 h6 9.Be3 Bb7 10.O-O Ng6 11.Nd4 b4 12.Nd5, but I was not convinced after exd5 13.exd5 Bd6 14.Nf5 Qf6, eg 15.Nxd6+ Qxd6 16.Rc1 0-0 17.Bc5 Qf6 18.Bxf8 Nxf8. White has some compensation, but again, is it enough?


Not a natural move but the queen have to go c1 intead the rooka1  16.Qc1! 0-0 17.Bc5 Qf4 (Qf6 18.Bf8 Nf8 (Kf8 is worse) 19.Qc7 the point!  the queen on the ''seven heaven'' is stronger than the rook  Bd5 20.Bd5 Nc6 21.b3 withe is much better) 18. Bf8 Qc1 19.Rc1 Kf8 20.Rfe1 a remarkable position,black have four pièces and can do nothing!! a5 (d6 21.Rc7) (Ra7 21.Re4 d6 22.Ba4)21.Rc7 Ba6 22.g3 h5 23.Bd1 h4 24.f4+/-
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #58 - 08/12/07 at 20:25:28
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Of course I had looked at 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 Ne7 7.Bg5 b5 8.Bb3 h6 9.Be3 Bb7 10.O-O Ng6 11.Nd4 b4 12.Nd5, but I was not convinced after exd5 13.exd5 Bd6 14.Nf5 Qf6, eg 15.Nxd6+ Qxd6 16.Rc1 0-0 17.Bc5 Qf6 18.Bxf8 Nxf8. White has some compensation, but again, is it enough?

Later edit, a comment on Dji's next post:

That's a very clever idea, my compliments.  Cool
« Last Edit: 08/13/07 at 02:32:36 by MNb »  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #57 - 08/12/07 at 11:19:56
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MNb wrote on 08/11/07 at 04:22:55:


1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 Ne7 7.Bg5 b5 8.Bb3 h6 9.Be3 Bb7 10.O-O Ng6 11.Nd4 Be7 and the obvious plan is 12.Qh5 (winning a tempo and compared to the Serper game even two) b4 13.Nce2 Bxe4 14.Ng3 Bb7 15.f4 Nc6 16.Rad1 and 17.f5. I am a little more worried about 11...b4 at once. White has compensation after 12.Nce2 Bxe4 13.Ng3 Bb7 14.f4, but is it enough for two pawns?

At the moment it is clear as mud to me.


Yes, of course , i 've forgotten Qh5 a key move in the ussr. Now i became more clear and i have a good feeling!

[Event "versionIV"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.08.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Analyse"]
[Black "Morra ussr "]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B21"]
[Annotator "Dji"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[EventDate "2007.08.12"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1996.11.15"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Bc4 a6 6. Nf3 Ne7 7. Bg5 b5 8. Bb3
h6 9. Be3 Bb7 10. O-O Ng6 11. Nd4 Be7 (11... Nc6 12. Nxc6 Bxc6 13. f4 Be7 14.
f5 Ne5 15. Qh5 Bd6 16. fxe6 dxe6 17. Bxe6 O-O 18. Bb3 {
with a dangerous initiative (idea Bxh6)}) (11... b4 12. Nd5 {
a 'standard' against an early b4} 12... exd5 13. exd5 Bc5 (13... Qf6 14. Nf3 {
with good compensation}) (13... Bd6 14. Nf5 {idem}) 14. Nc6 Qb6 (14... dxc6 15.
Bxc5 cxd5 16. Re1+ Kd7 17. Rc1) (14... Nxc6 15. dxc6 Bxc6 16. Bxc5 Qg5 17. Re1+
Kd8 18. Bb6+ Kc8 19. g3 Kb7 20. Bd4 Rhe8 21. Rc1 Nf4 22. Be3 Nh3+ 23. Kf1 Qf5
24. Qd4 Rxe3 (24... Qe4 25. Qb6+ Kc8 26. Rxc6+ dxc6 27. Bxf7 Rd8 28. Qxd8+ Kxd8
29. Bb6+ Ke7 30. Rxe4+ Kxf7 31. Rxb4 $16) 25. Qxe3 Ng5 26. Red1 Qh3+ 27. Ke1
Nf3+ 28. Ke2 Nxh2 29. Rd4 a5 30. Bd5 $18) 15. Bxc5 Qxc5 16. Re1+ Kf8 17. Rc1
Qb6 18. Qf3 Kg8 19. Re7 +-) 12. f4 {Probably more precise than the immediate Qh5} 12... O-O (12... b4 {again risky}f5 ( the point of the move order! Now this move is dangerous) bxc3 (13... Ne5 14. fxe6 dxe6 15. Qh5 O-O 16. Nxe6) 14. fxg6 f6 15. bxc3
Bxe4 (15... O-O 16. Qh5) 16. Bxe6) 13. Qh5 b4 14. f5 Ne5 (14... Nh4 15. fxe6
dxe6 16. Rad1 !? (16. Bxe6 !? fxe6 (16... bxc3 17. Bxf7+ Kh7 18. Ne6 cxb2 19.
Rab1 +-) 17. Nxe6 Qd3 18. Bxh6 with attack)) (14... bxc3 15. fxg6 fxg6 (15... Qe8 16.
Rxf7 +-) 16. Qxg6 cxb2 17. Bxe6+ dxe6 18. Nxe6 bxa1=Q 19. Rxa1 Rf7 20. Nxd8
Bxd8 21. Rf1 Re7 22. Bc5 Bxe4 23. Rf8+ Kxf8 24. Bxe7+ Bxe7 25. Qxe4 Nc6 26.
Qxc6 +-) 15. fxe6 dxe6 16. Nxe6 fxe6 17. Rxf8+ Qxf8 18. Qxe5 +/- *


  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #56 - 08/11/07 at 10:56:19
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MNb wrote on 08/11/07 at 02:25:12:
If you are right, then White has a problem after 4...e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 Ne7 7.Bg5 h6, as 8.Bh4 will be answered with d6 9.0-0 Nbc6 heading for a favourable transposition: 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 e6 7.0-0 Nge7 8.Bg5 a6 9.Qe2 h6 10.Bh4?! iso 10.Be3. Or can White take benefit from not having played Qe2 ? I am not convinced by the famous game Landa-Kasparov, Moscow 1988, bceause of  10.Qd2 g5 11.Bg3 Ng6 12.Rad1 e5 13.Nd5 Bg4 14.Be2 Bg7 15.Ne3 Bxf3 16.Bxf3 Nd4 and White's bishops do not impress me.


Interesting it seem you've right tought i'm not sure that whites are really in danger but those positions looks rather unclear 

[Event "corr"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1970.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Tarasov, V."]
[Black "Shestakov, Sergey Sergeevich"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B21"]
[PlyCount "39"]
[EventDate "1970.??.??"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2000.04.19"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 d6 6. Bc4 e6 7. O-O Nge7 8.
Bg5 a6 9. Qd2 h6 10. Bf4 g5 11. Bg3 Ng6 12. Rfd1 {maybe better than the other rook} 12... e5 13. Nd5 Bg4 14. Be2 Bxf3 (14... Bg715. Nb4 O-O (15... Nf4 16. Bxf4 exf4 17. Nxc6 bxc6 18. Qxd6) (15... Bxf3 16.Nxc6) 16. Nxc6 bxc6 17. h3 Bh5 18. Qxd6) 15. Bxf3 Nd4 16. Bh5 Nf4 17. Bxf4 gxf4
18. Qb4 b5 19. Rxd4 exd4 20. Qxd4 1-0
« Last Edit: 08/11/07 at 12:16:37 by Dji »  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #55 - 08/11/07 at 04:22:55
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There are two other relevant games, albeit by transposition:

Tkaczyk,P - Jedrzejowski,M [B21]
corr 1996
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Nf3 a6 6.Bc4 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.Qe2 Ne7 9.Bg5 h6 10.Be3 Ng6 11.0–0 Be7 12.Nd4 0–0 13.Rad1 Qc7 14.Qh5 b4 15.Nce2 Bxe4 16.Ng3 Bb7 17.f4 Nh4 18.f5 Nxg2 19.Bxh6 Qe5 20.Bxg7 Kxg7 21.f6+ Bxf6 22.Ngf5+ exf5 23.Nxf5+ Kg8 24.Qg6+ Kh8 25.Bxf7 Rxf7 26.Qxf7 Nh4 27.Rd3 Qc5+ 28.Re3 Nxf5 29.Qxf6+ Kh7 30.Qxf5+ Qxf5 31.Rxf5 Kg6 32.Rf2 a5 33.Rg3+ Kh5 34.Rf5+ Kh6 35.Rf6+ Kh5 36.Rb6 Ba6 37.Rbg6 Nc6 38.R3g5+ Kh4 39.Rg2 Kh5 40.R6g5+ Kh6 41.R5g3 Be2 42.Rxe2 1–0

Notes:
12...b4 worries me a bit; 13.Na4 Bxe4 14.Rad1 Qa5 15.f4 Nc6 (0-0 16.f5 is great for White) 16.f5 Nge5 17.fxe6 dxe6 18.Nxe6 fxe6 19.Bb6 only shows, that a5 is a bad square for the queen. Is 14...Qc7 better? 15.f4 Qb7 16.f5 Nh4 17.fxe6 fxe6 18.Bxe6 is another attacking line.
17...Nc6 18.Ndf5 Bf6 19.Nxh6+ gxh6 20.f5 Nge5 21.Ne4 and White has a dangerous attack.

Frankle,J (2250) - Serper,G (2555) [B21]
American op-37 (2), 2001
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Nf3 a6 6.Bc4 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.Qe2 Ne7 9.Bg5 h6 10.Be3 Ng6 11.0–0 Be7 12.Rad1 0–0 13.Nd4 Qc7 14.a3 Nc6 15.Qh5 Nxd4 16.Bxd4 Rac8 17.Rd3 Bd6 18.Rfd1 Be5 19.Bxe5 Qxe5 20.Qxe5 Nxe5 21.Rd6 Bc6 22.R6d4 Rc7 23.a4 bxa4 24.Nxa4 Rb8 25.Bc2 Bxa4 26.Bxa4 Rxb2 27.f4 Ng4 28.h3 Ne3 29.R1d2 Rxd2 30.Rxd2 d5 31.Rd3 Rc4 32.exd5 Nxd5 33.Bb3 Rc3 34.Rxc3 Nxc3 35.Kf2 a5 36.Ke3 a4 37.Kd3 axb3 38.Kxc3 Kh7 39.Kxb3 Kg6 40.g4 h5 41.Kc4 hxg4 42.hxg4 e5 0–1

Which shows, that 14.a3 is a lame move.

1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 Ne7 7.Bg5 b5 8.Bb3 h6 9.Be3 Bb7 10.O-O Ng6 11.Nd4 Be7 and the obvious plan is 12.Qh5 (winning a tempo and compared to the Serper game even two) b4 13.Nce2 Bxe4 14.Ng3 Bb7 15.f4 Nc6 16.Rad1 and 17.f5. I am a little more worried about 11...b4 at once. White has compensation after 12.Nce2 Bxe4 13.Ng3 Bb7 14.f4, but is it enough for two pawns?

In that Novak-Lanc game White has some other options.
12.Nd4 (iso 12.Nd2) Bxc3 13.bxc3 Bxe4 14.a4 bxa4 (Qc8 15.axb5 Qxc3? 16.Rfc1 +-) 15.Rxa4 Bb7 16.f4 0-0 17.f5 exf5 18.Nxf5 and all White pieces are ready for action.
12...Qf6 (iso Nc6) 13.a4 bxa4 14.Bxa4 Nf4 15.Qc4
14.a4 (iso 14.Rad1) bxa4 15.Rxa4 followed by 16.e5 or 16.f5.

At the moment it is clear as mud to me.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #54 - 08/11/07 at 02:25:12
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If you are right, then White has a problem after 4...e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 Ne7 7.Bg5 h6, as 8.Bh4 will be answered with d6 9.0-0 Nbc6 heading for a favourable transposition: 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 e6 7.0-0 Nge7 8.Bg5 a6 9.Qe2 h6 10.Bh4?! iso 10.Be3. Or can White take benefit from not having played Qe2 ? I am not convinced by the famous game Landa-Kasparov, Moscow 1988, bceause of  10.Qd2 g5 11.Bg3 Ng6 12.Rad1 e5 13.Nd5 Bg4 14.Be2 Bg7 15.Ne3 Bxf3 16.Bxf3 Nd4 and White's bishops do not impress me.
« Last Edit: 08/11/07 at 03:33:28 by MNb »  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #53 - 08/10/07 at 12:28:16
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Taimanov 've played only the main line of the morra so historically speaking i prefer Ussr .
I have found two games with Be3, i would like with move work but yesterday 've found nothing
convincing . 
[ Event "Milwaukee"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1984.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Gomez"]
[Black "Smith, Daniel"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B21"]
[PlyCount "61"]
[EventDate "1984.??.??"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 Ne7 7. Bg5 h6 8. Be3
b5 9. Bb3 Bb7 10. O-O d6 11. Nd4 Nbc6 12. f4 Nxd4 13. Bxd4 Nc6 14. Be3 Na5 15.
f5 Nxb3 16. fxe6 Nxa1 17. Rxf7 g6 18. Rxb7 Rc8 19. Nd5 Be7 20. Rxe7+ Qxe7 21.
Nxe7 Kxe7 22. Qxa1 Rc6 23. b3 Rh7 24. Bxh6 Kxe6 25. Bg7 Kd7 26. h3 Rh5 27. Qf1
Rhc5 28. Qf7+ Kc8 29. Qe8+ Kb7 30. Bh6 g5 31. Bxg5 1-0

[Event "Prague Mladi op"]
[Site "Prague"]
[Date "1990.??.??"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Novak, Ivan"]
[Black "Lanc, Alois"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "2285"]
[BlackElo "2465"]
[Annotator "Dji"]
[PlyCount "80"]
[EventDate "1990.??.??"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1996.11.15"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Bc4 a6 6. Nf3 Ne7 7. Bg5 b5 8. Bb3
h6 9. Be3 Bb7 10. O-O Ng6 11. Qe2 (11. Nd4 {The most obvious plan....?} 11...
Be7 12. f4 O-O 13. f5 Ne5 {blacks seems to hold}) 11... Bb4 12. Nd2 Nc6 13. f4
Qe7 14. Rad1 Na5 15. f5 Ne5 16. fxe6 dxe6 17. Qh5 Nac6 18. Nf3 g6 19. Qh3 Bc5
20. Bxc5 Qxc5+ 21. Kh1 Nc4 22. Nd5 exd5 23. exd5 Ne7 24. Bxc4 bxc4 25. Ne5 Bc8
26. Qf3 Nf5 27. d6 Ra7 28. Rd5 Qe3 29. d7+ Rxd7 30. Nxd7 Qxf3 31. Nf6+ Ke7 32.
Rxf3 Kxf6 33. Rc5 Bb7 34. Rf1 Rd8 35. Rxc4 Rd2 36. Rfc1 Bxg2+ 37. Kg1 Bd5 38.
Rc5 Ne3 39. R5c3 Rg2+ 40. Kh1 Rg5# 0-1

 
some more analyse with Bh4...
[Event "Prague"]
[Site "Prague"]
[Date "2007.??.??"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Analyse"]
[Black "Morra USSR with h6"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B21"]
[Annotator "Dji 9.8.2007"]
[PlyCount "31"]
[EventDate "1990.??.??"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1996.11.15"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Bc4 a6 6. Nf3 Ne7 7. Bg5 b5 8. Bb3
h6 9. Bh4 Bb7 10. O-O Nbc6 11. a4 b4 (11... bxa4 12. Bxa4 g5 13. Bg3 Bg7 14.
Qd6 O-O 15. Rfd1) 12. Nd5 d6 (or 12... Na5?! 13. Ne5! (better than Nb4) exd5 (13... Nxb3 14. Qf3 Nf5
15. Bxd8+-) 13...exd5 14. Qf3 Qb6 15. Bxd5 {with an attack}) ( or 12... f6 13. Rc1 Rc8 (
13... exd5 14. exd5 Na5 15. d6 Nxb3 16. Qxb3 Nd5 17. Rfe1+ Kf7 18. Ne5+ Kg8 19.
Rc7 +-) 14. Re1 Ng6 15. e5 Nxh4 16. Nxh4 Nxe5 17. Qh5+ Nf7 18. Nf5 Rxc1 19.
Rxc1 Bxd5 20. Bxd5 Qb8 21. Qg6 {what a position!}) ( or 12... Rc8!? maybe best 13. Re1 d6 14. a5
exd5 15. exd5 Na7 16. Ba4+ Nb5 17. Nd4 Qd7 18. Qe2 Bxd5 19. Nxb5 axb5 20. Bxb5
Bc6 21. Bxc6 Rxc6 22. a6 Rc8 23. Qe4 f5 24. Qd5 {with good compensation}) 13.
a5 13... exd5 14. exd5 Nb8 (14...Na7 15. Ba4+ Nb5 16. Nd4 f6 17. Qh5+ g6 18. Qf3 f5 19. Rfe1 Rh7 20. Re6 Qd7 21. Qd3 Bxd5 22. Nxb5 axb5 23. Qxd5 Rxa5 24. Rae1
g5 25. Bc2 Kd8 26. Qd1 b3 27. Rxd6 Nc6 28. Rxd7+ Rxd7 29. Bd3 +/-) 15. Re1 Qc7
16. Nd4 +/- *

  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #52 - 08/10/07 at 00:33:49
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We'll see, if this name will stick. Personally I would prefer to use the analogy with the Open Sicilian (Scheveningen, Dragon), so it would be logical to name the ...Nge7 the Taimanov Defence. Only problem is that I don't know if GM Taimanov would approve.

10...Nbc6 11.a4 b4 12.Nd5 Na5 13.Nxb4 g5 14.Bg3 Qb6 is quite unclear.
According to my sources the result of the game was a draw and a glance at the final position convinces me, that this is the correct one.
17.Rd1 deserves a big questionmark - probably even two.

I still find 10.Be3 simplest. With ...b4 Black can grab a second pawn, but will lose the exchange. After 10...Nbc6 play will transpose to other variations.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #51 - 08/09/07 at 17:28:32
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Hello Mnb and all!

First of all i would like to propose a name for variations with Nge7 (before the developpement of the king's bishop).This variation was played as early as the fifties by players such as Suetin, Koblenz(koblencs)... then Petkevitch, Sakharov and more recently Yudasin and the King himself! (Landa-Kasparov 1988) so why not the USSR's variation! 

Second  the USSR  Smiley with h6 is relatively unknown territory so it's not easy to find the right way.
At the time (1994)Burgess prefered h6 Bh4 and now Langrock recommand h6 Be3 


In the game i just give some personnal ideas if you don't like it find another one!

[Event "Regionalliga SO 0203"]
[Site "Bayern"]
[Date "2002.10.20"]
[Round "1.2"]
[White "Lochte, Thomas"]
[Black "Knechtel, Roland"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "2156"]
[BlackElo "2141"]
[Annotator "Dji"]
[PlyCount "112"]
[EventDate "2002.10.20"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2003.11.25"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. O-O
Ne7 9. Bg5 h6 10. Bh4 b4?  (10... Nbc6 {Maybe best} 11. a4 b4 12. Nd5 {
with ideas such as Rc1,Te1,Bg3 or sometime a5}) (10... d6 11. Nd4 {
it's not easy to avoid pieces sac on e6. Just one or two examples} 11... Nd7 (
11... Qd7 12. f4) 12. Bxe6 fxe6 13. Nxe6 Qb6 (13... Qb8 14. Bg3 (14. f4) 14...
Ne5 15. Rc1 Nc4 16. b3 Bc8 17. Nxf8 Ne5 18. Nd5 Nxd5 19. Bxe5 Rxf8 20. Bxg7 Rf721. exd5 Rxg7 22. Re1+ Kf8 23. Qf3+ Rf7 24. Qc3) 14. Bxe7 (14. Rc1) 14... Kxe7(14... Bxe7 15. Qh5+ g6 16. Qxg6#) 15. Nf4 Kd8 16. Ncd5 Bxd5 17. Qxd5 Ra7 18.Ng6 Nf6 19. Qd3 Rg8 20. e5 Be7 21. exf6 Bxf6 22. Rfe1+-{Maybe there's better  defence....})
(10... g5 another try but it's probably too early because blacks have a big lack of developpement and too much weakness 11. Bg3 Ng6 12. Ne5 Nxe5 13. Bxe5
Rg8 14. Bg3 b4 15. Nd5 exd5 16. exd5 Be7 17. Re1 d6 18. Qd4 Kf8 19. Qxb4 Bc820. Rxe7 Kxe7 21. Bc2 21... f6 (21... Re8 22. Re1+ +-)) 11. Ne5! 
+- (11. Nd5!?) 11... Nbc6 (11... g5 12. Qh5 Rh7 13. Nd5 exd5 14. Bxg5 Qc7 (
14... Qb6 15. exd5 Qd6 16. Rfe1 Rg7 17. Bh4 a5 18. Bg3 Ra6 19. Nxf7 Qg6 20. Qe5d6 21. Nxd6+ Rxd6 22. Qxd6 Qxd6 23. Bxd6 Nd7 24. Rac1 Nb6 25. Be5 +-) 15. Ng4 Bg7 16. exd5+-) 12. Nc4 d5 13. exd5 bxc3 14. dxc6 Qxd1 15. cxb7 Qxf1+ 16. Rxf1 Rb8 17. Rd1 (17. Ba4+! Kd8 18. Rd1+ Kc7 19. Rd7#) 17... f6 18. Nd6+ Kd7 19. Nf7+ d5 20. Nxh8 cxb2 21. Ng6 Ba3 22. Bg3 Rxb7 23. Nf4 Ke7 24. Nxd5+ exd5 25. Kf1 Rb6 26. Bc2 Rc6 27. Bg6 Rc1 28. Ke2 Ke6 29. Bd3 a5 30. f4 f5 31. Bf2 g6 32. Bd4 a4 33. g4 h5 34. gxf5+ gxf5 35. Rg1 Bd6 36. Rg6+ Ke7 37. Bxb2 Rh1 38. Rg7+ Ke6 39. Rg6+ Ke7 40. Bf6+ Kf7 41. Bxf5 Rxh2+ 42. Kf3 Rxa2 43. Be5 Ra3+ 44. Ke2 Bxe5 45. fxe5 d4 46. e6+ Kf8 47. Rf6+ Ke8 48. Bd3 Ke7 49. Rh6 h4 50. Bc4 Re3+  51.Kf2 Kd6 52. Rh5 Rc3 53. Rd5+ Kxe6 54. Rxd4+ Ke5 55. Rxh4 a3 56. Ke1 Rc2 1/2-1/2

« Last Edit: 08/10/07 at 10:01:02 by Dji »  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #50 - 08/08/07 at 20:29:20
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The remark on 8.Qe2 Ne7 is an important one, as in regular ...Nge7 lines the queen usually does not go to e2. Black gets ...Bb7 for free: 8.Qe2 Ne7 9.Bg5 f6 10.Be3 Nc6! (not mentioned by Palkovi) 11.0-0 (what else?) and Black has transposed to the favourable line 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bc4 a6 7.0-0 Nge7 8.Bg5 f6 9.Be3 b5 10.Bb3 Bb7 when 11.Qe2 is not such a good move, see Garcia Ramos-Barria Zuniga, Valencia 2003.
White has to play 8.0-0 iso 8.Qe2 and offer a second pawn. It makes me wonder though, if 8.0-0 Ne7!? is a good idea. There is a game Lochte-Knechtel, Bavaria 2002, which is not very helpful: 9.Bg5 (the usual reaction) h6 (f6!?) 10.Bh4 (but this is unual, in similar lines 10.Be3 is the approved move) b4?! (necessary? Why not d6 or Nbc6 ?) 11.Ne5 Nbc6? (g5 12.Qh5 Rh7 13.Nd5 is to be investigated, if this line ever becomes important) 12.Nc4 d5 13.exd5 (13.Nxd5!? is also strong) bxc3 14.dxc6 Qxd1 15.cxb7 Qxf1+ 16.Rxf1 Rb8 and White missed the mate, subsequently spoiled his advantage and had to adjust to a draw on the 56th move.

Later edit:
after a good night sleep I have come to the conclusion, that stereotypal play is best: 8.0-0 Ne7 (b4 9.Nd5!) 9.Bg5 h6/f6 10.Be3 as b4 11.Na4 Bxe4 12.Nb6 looks promising for White.
« Last Edit: 08/09/07 at 13:43:10 by MNb »  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #49 - 08/08/07 at 20:19:07
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A quick sum up about the move order:
  1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nf3 e6 5. Bc4 a6 6. Nxc3 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8.0-0! (8.Qe2 Nge7!? Langrock) d6 (8...b4 9.Nd5!) 9.Qe2 Nbd7 10.Bf4! Ngf6 (10...Be7 11.Rfd1) 11.Rad1 with compensation
« Last Edit: 08/09/07 at 09:39:47 by Dji »  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #48 - 08/01/07 at 07:16:19
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Great analysis here guys! Dji's 10) Bf4 is definitely very dangerous for black.  Shocked
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #47 - 07/27/07 at 08:47:35
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Klick wrote on 07/27/07 at 06:44:17:
Some really great variations and analysis here, especially by Dji who first brought up 10.Bf4! and Rad1! instead of the "automatic" Rfd1. Nd5 really is deadly in many variations.
Smiley But without possible with the precious help of Mnb

Quote:
While I do not think Black necessarily is busted in all lines it seems he needs to walk a tightrope to survive.
I don't want to Kill black! Smiley 
I wonder what SevenSpheres who started this thread thinks: Quote:
I would very much like to see an example of the Nd5 sac with Rooks piled on the d-line, I just can't get this variation out of my head.  I think a stark visual example of Black getting thrashed would be just the right tonic for my ailment!

    Sevenspheres is missing ,not connected since 27 may 2007. I hope he'll come back ! Uberdeker and others too.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #46 - 07/27/07 at 06:44:17
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Some really great variations and analysis here, especially by Dji who first brought up 10.Bf4! and Rad1! instead of the "automatic" Rfd1. Nd5 really is deadly in many variations.

While I do not think Black necessarily is busted in all lines it seems he needs to walk a tightrope to survive. 

I wonder what SevenSpheres who started this thread thinks: Quote:
I would very much like to see an example of the Nd5 sac with Rooks piled on the d-line, I just can't get this variation out of my head.  I think a stark visual example of Black getting thrashed would be just the right tonic for my ailment!


  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #45 - 07/26/07 at 06:10:20
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MNb wrote on 07/26/07 at 01:32:04:


Hope you slept well.  Wink Then the problem 18...f5 might disappear like snow in the sun: 19.Rc4 Qb8 20.Ba4+ Kf8 21.Ne5 Nf6 22.Rd1 and White must have enough for the piece.
I am confident, we have solved the a6/b5 problem.


Cool ! Cool
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #44 - 07/26/07 at 01:32:04
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Dji wrote on 07/25/07 at 22:38:11:

Probably 17.Qd2 is little better for white

You might be right indeed.

a)15...exd5 16.Bxd5 Bxd5 17.Rxd5 looks critical. Black has quite a few reasonable moves: Nf8; Qb7; Qc6. White may try 16.Rxd5 Nc5 17.e6 Qxf4  18.Rxc5

Dji wrote on 07/25/07 at 22:38:11:

The problem is here 18...f5!? that why i 've a lot of time last night, I've tried  17.Rc1 too ( instead of 17.e6 ) maybe enough for a draw 

Now i  try 13.a5 Qc7 14.Na4 Nf6 15.Nb6 but before i've to sleep!  lol 


Hope you slept well.  Wink Then the problem 18...f5 might disappear like snow in the sun: 19.Rc4 Qb8 20.Ba4+ Kf8 21.Ne5 Nf6 22.Rd1 and White must have enough for the piece.
I am confident, we have solved the a6/b5 problem.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #43 - 07/25/07 at 22:38:11
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Thaks too it's always a pleasure too exchange idea, especially about the Morra 
MNb wrote on 07/25/07 at 15:53:30:

The ...Qb6 line is harder to crack, I am afraid.

that true i've spent a lot of time last night Sad

Quote:
10.Bf4 Be7 11.Rfd1 Qb6 12.a4 b4 13.a5 Qc7 14.e5 d5 15.Na4 Qxa5 (Nh6 16.Nd4 0-0 cannot be good, as the Black king is in continuous danger) 16.Rdc1
a)16...Qb5 17.Qd1 Rc8 18.Nd4 Rxc1 (Qa5 19.Nc5) 19.Rxc1 Qa5 20.Nc6 (20.Qh5 g6) Bxc6 21.Rxc6 Qb5 and now what?

Probably 17.Qd2 is little better for white

Quote:
b)not the bold 16...Qd8!?
The problem, same conclusion than you


Quote:
a)15...exd5 16.Bxd5 Bxd5 17.Rxd5 looks critical. Black has quite a few reasonable moves: Nf8; Qb7; Qc6. White may try 16.Rxd5 Nc5 17.e6 Qxf4  18.Rxc5
The problem is here 18...f5!? that why i 've a lot of time last night, I've tried  17.Rc1 too ( instead of 17.e6 ) maybe enough for a draw 

Now i  try 13.a5 Qc7 14.Na4 Nf6 15.Nb6 but before i've to sleep!  lol 

« Last Edit: 07/26/07 at 06:52:23 by Dji »  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #42 - 07/25/07 at 19:34:33
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Thanks you sincerely all for posting, we just try to find the truth isn't it ?
 Like i said before i'm not sure that Nd5 is the best move but probably in klick's last variation it work again  

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.07.25"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dji"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B21"]
[PlyCount "58"]
[EventDate "1991.??.??"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. c3 dxc3 5. Nxc3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. Qe2
d6 9. Bf4 Nd7 10. O-O Ngf6 11. Rad1  Qb8 12. Nd5 Nh5 13. Bd2 g6 14. g4 Nhf6 (
14... Ng7 15. Bc3) 15. Nxf6+ Nxf6 16. Bc3 Bg7 (16... e5 17. Ng5 h6 18. Bxf7+
Ke7 19. f4 Qa7+ (19... hxg5 20. fxe5 Kxf7 21. Rxf6+ +/-) 20. Rf2 hxg5 21. fxe5
Kxf7 22. Bd4 Qb8 23. Rxf6+ Kg8 24. Rxg6+ Kh7 25. Rxg5 Qd8 26. Qe3 +-) 17. g5
Nh5 18. Bb4 d5 19. Bxd5 Bxd5 20. exd5 (20. Rxd5) 20... Qf4 21. dxe6 Qxb4 (21...
Qg4+ 22. Kh1 Qxb4 23. exf7+ Kxf7 24. Rd7+ Kf8 25. Ne5 +-) 22. exf7+ Kf8 23.
Rfe1 Qg4+ 24. Kh1 Qg2+ 25. Kxg2 Nf4+ 26. Kg3 Nxe2+ 27. Rxe2 Ra7 28. Nd4 Bxd4
29. Rxd4 Kxf7 with a pawn up and more space

  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #41 - 07/25/07 at 17:07:04
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I wonder if not the daring 

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nf3 e6 5. Bc4 a6 6. Nxc3 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. Qe2
d6 9. O-O Nd7 10. Bf4 Ngf6 11. Rad1 Qb8 12. Nd5 Nh5 13. Bd2 g6!? is interesting, protecting the knight and trying to do something about blacks kingside. 

For instance 14. Bb4 (14. g4
Nhf6 15. Bc3 Bg7) 14... a5 15. Rc1!? Bxd5  16. exd5 Nf4 with ...e5 to follow.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #40 - 07/25/07 at 15:53:30
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Thanks again, 12.e5 indeed is stronger than 12.Rd2. The fact, that 12.e5 must be played after 10...Be7 but not after 10...Nf6 is a bit counterintuitive. It has to do with the less protected knight on d7.

The ...Qb6 line is harder to crack, I am afraid.
10.Bf4 Be7 11.Rfd1 Qb6 12.a4 b4 13.a5 Qc7 14.e5 d5 15.Na4 Qxa5 (Nh6 16.Nd4 0-0 cannot be good, as the Black king is in continuous danger) 16.Rdc1
a)16...Qb5 17.Qd1 Rc8 18.Nd4 Rxc1 (Qa5 19.Nc5) 19.Rxc1 Qa5 20.Nc6 (20.Qh5 g6) Bxc6 21.Rxc6 Qb5 and now what?
b)not the bold 16...Qd8!? 17.Nd4 h5? intending 18...g5 because of 18.Nc6, but Qd8!? 17.Nd4 Rc8 18.Qh5 Kf8 and again I am not sure of White's compensation. Two pawns are quite a lot.
My problem here is, that I don't like White nor Black! It will take a lot of time to develop those two pieces on g8 and h8. At the other hand Na4 is not on an optimal square either.
So maybe 12.a4 b4 13.a5 Qc7 14.e5 d5 15.Nxd5 is the way to go?
a)15...exd5 16.Bxd5 Bxd5 17.Rxd5 looks critical. Black has quite a few reasonable moves: Nf8; Qb7; Qc6. White may try 16.Rxd5 Nc5 17.e6 Qxf4 (Nxb3 18.exf7+ Kxf7 19.Rf5+ Nf6 20.Bxc7 maintains the attack) 18.Rxc5 Bxc5 19.exf7+ Kf8 20.fxg8Q+ Rxg8 21.Qc2 though.
b)15...Bxd5 16.Rxd5 exd5 17.Bxd5 and Black has a little problem with pawn f7.
This looks more promising for White than 15.Na4. I am glad I could return your favour.  Wink

I have also looked at 10.Bf4 Nf6 11.Rad1 Qb6 (never played before, afaIk)
a)12.Rd2 (this plan is not as good as after 11...Qb8) Be7 13.Rfd1 b4 14.Na4 Qb5 (and this is the reason why).
b)12.Nd5 exd5 13.exd5+ Kd8 (Be7 14.Rfe1 is line c) 14.Ng5 Kc7 15.Nxf7 Rg8 16.Be3 Qa5 17.Bd2 Qb6 and White has at least a draw and likely more.
c)12.Rfe1 Be7 (b4? 13.Nd5 is what White wants) 13.Nd5 exd5 14.exd5 Ng8 (this move shows, why I am interested in 10...Be7 iso 10...Nf6) 15.Nd4 Kf8 16.Nf5 Ne5 (only move) 17.Bxe5 dxe5 18.Qxe5 Bf6 19.Qf4 and Black's problems are not over yet.

Well, well, the Morragambit looks in good shape again, as we have found good ways to combat the problem defences of the last few years: the 6...a6 variation (see my modest contribution in the Hague-Überdeker thread), the 7...Nge7 8.Bg5 f6 variation (based on Zacharov's knight sac 11.Nd5, see also the recent game Zelic-Martinovic, Split 2007 and News since Langrock's book thread) and this early a6, b5 variation.
Mission accomplished.
Very satisfactory.  Cool

But where remains Überdeker, to defend the honour of the Sicilian?

  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #39 - 07/25/07 at 08:45:10
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[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.07.25"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dji"]
[Black "analyse"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B21"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[EventDate "1989.??.??"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. Qe2
d6 9. O-O Nd7 10. Bf4 Be7 11. Rfd1 $1 Qb6 12. a4 b4 13. a5 Qc7 14. e5 d5 (
14... bxc3 15. exd6 Qb8 16. Ne5) 15. Na4!?  Probably withe can take time because there a general's problem  with black's kingside (it seem to be the main problem after e5 d5 in many variation   Nh6 (15... Qxa5 16. Rdc1 Nh6 17.Nd4 Rc8 18. Nc5 Qxa1 19. Rxa1 Nxc5 20. Bc2 O-O 21. Bxh6 gxh6 22. Qd2) (15...
Rc8 16. Rdc1 Qxa5) 16. Nd4 O-O 17. Qh5 Rac8 18. Rd3 (18. Bc2) (18. Rdc1) *

  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #38 - 07/25/07 at 07:41:45
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MNb wrote on 07/24/07 at 20:44:19:

Moreover there is 10.Bf4 Be7 11.Rfd1 (remember your own question? What is the king's rook doing there?) Qb8 12.Rd2 (moves like 12.a3 and 12.Rac1 are answered with the nice transposition Ngf6) b4 and once again the Nd5-sac does not work, so 13.Na4 Ngf6 and Black has avoided all the dangerous lines discussed above.
This only serves as a warning. As soon as Black players have been crushed by the Nd5-stuff a few times, they will look for new ways - like playing ...Be7 before ...Nf6.


For this one i can't agreed!
[[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.07.25"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dji"]
[Black "Analyse"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B21"]
[Annotator "Dji"]
[PlyCount "41"]
[EventDate "2003.08.21"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2003.11.25"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. Qe2
d6 9. O-O Nd7 10. Rd1 Be7 11. Bf4 don't pay attention to the move order Qb8 12. e5 d5 (12... Bxf3is Langrock 's main line)  13. Rac1  Withe can take time because black just can't move!(Here Langrock give only 13.Nd4!? witn compensation) Qd8 ( or 13... Nh6 14. Qd2 Nf5 (14... Ng4 15. Nxd5 Bxd5 16. Bxd5 exd5 17. e6 +-) 15.
Nxd5 +-) ( or 13... b4 14. Nxd5 exd5 (14... Bxd5 15. Rxd5 exd5 16. Bxd5 Nb6 17.
Bxf7+ +-) 15. Ba4 +-) ( or 13... Qa7 14. Be3 Qb8 15. Qd2 Qd8 16. Nxd5 exd5 17.
Bxd5 Rb8 (17... Bxd5 18. Qxd5 Rc8 19. Qb7 +-) 18. Bxb7 Rxb7 19. Qc3) 14. Nxd5
Bxd5 (14... exd5 15. e6 fxe6 16. Bc7 Qc8 17. Be5 +/-) 15. Bxd5 exd5 16. e6 Nf8
17. exf7+ Kxf7 18. Ne5+ Ke8 19. Qh5+ g6 20. Qf3 Nf6 21. Bg5 +- *

For the other one probably I find enough compentation but i'm not entirely satisfied...to be continued
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #37 - 07/24/07 at 20:44:19
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This basically is the game Cinar-Caoili, Istanbul 2000. Black played 12.a4 b4 (iso Nc5) 13.a5 Qc7 (iso losing a tempo with Qc6) 14.Na4 e5, but imo simply Ngf6 leads to a good game for Black - no knight sacs around! Of course 14.e5 can be answered with ...d5.
Moreover there is 10.Bf4 Be7 11.Rfd1 (remember your own question? What is the king's rook doing there?) Qb8 12.Rd2 (moves like 12.a3 and 12.Rac1 are answered with the nice transposition Ngf6) b4 and once again the Nd5-sac does not work, so 13.Na4 Ngf6 and Black has avoided all the dangerous lines discussed above.
This only serves as a warning. As soon as Black players have been crushed by the Nd5-stuff a few times, they will look for new ways - like playing ...Be7 before ...Nf6.
Flesch in his book on the Morra Gambit wrote a few nice things about opening preparation. The problem with the Morra Gambit is, that the defenders follow his advices as well.  Sad
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #36 - 07/24/07 at 11:27:37
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[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.07.24"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dji"]
[Black "analyse"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B21"]
[PlyCount "31"]
[EventDate "2007.07.24"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. Qe2
d6 9. O-O Nd7 10. Bf4 Be7 11. Rfd1!  When black play Be7 instead of Nf6, Nd5 sac don't work in general so there nothing to do for rooks on the e file and on the other hand it's important fo the queen 's rook  to stay on the a file   Qb6 12. a4 a thematic move b4 (12... Nc5 13. Bc2 b4 14.
a5 Qc6 15. Nd4 Qc7 (15... Qc8 16. Na4 e5 17. Nxc5 dxc5 18. Bxe5 cxd4 19. Bxg7
Bf6 20. Ba4+ Ke7 21. Rac1 with attack) 16. e5 d5 17. Na4 Qxa5 18. Nxc5 Qxc5 19. Ba4+
Kf8 20. Qf3 with an attack) 13. a5 Qc7 14. e5!  bxc3 15. exd6 Qb8 16. Ne5 *

« Last Edit: 07/24/07 at 13:33:53 by Dji »  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #35 - 07/23/07 at 23:04:08
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Which brings us to the next problem (as so often with the Morra Gambit; good work btw). Maybe b8 is an inferior square for Her Majesty, after all she places herself voluntarily in the fireline of the white bishop. There is another square available, which also protects the weakling on d6. See the game Cinar-Caoili, Istanbul 2000, as a starting point.
4...e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Rd1 Be7 11.Bf4 Qb6!? idea 12.Rd2 b4!? and Black is better prepared for the knight sac, while 13.Na4 can be answered with Qb5!?
Of course this idea also can be applied after 10.Bf4 Be7 11.Rad1 Qb6!?, when Cinar's plan a2-a4-a5 is not available.

This made me wonder again - if the knight sac (Nd5) is so dangerous, why not try to get normal positions via this move order? 10.Rd1 Be7 11.Bf4 Qb8 or 10.Bf4 Be7 11.Rad1 Qb8 and the three most relevant games are not very convincing from White's point of view:

Langrock-Bouroutzakis, Kiel 2000
Weitzer-Siepelt, DEU 2002
Nikhilesh-Vioreanu, Goa 2002.

It is clear, that with the knight still on g8, the knight sac loses much of its power. If White choses a quieter plan, then ...Nf6 will follow.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #34 - 07/23/07 at 12:53:58
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Some variations to show that black's life is not so easy after 12.Nd5 Nh5 13.Bd2 Nc5 (13...Be7? 14.Ne7 Ke7 15.Bb4+-  or  13...Ne5? 14.Ne5 de5 15.Nxf6+ gf6 16.Bxe6! fe6 17.Qh5+-   or   13...Nhf6 maybe best  14.Nd4!? with compensation (14.Bf4=)) 14.Ba5 ed5 15.ed5 Be7 (15...Kd7 16.Ng5 Nf6 17.Rfe1 Qa7  18.Nxf7 +/- ) 16.Rfe1 0-0 18.Qe7 Re8 19.Qg5 with initiative
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #33 - 07/20/07 at 08:35:44
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As I already wrote, this line does not worry me. Just 12.Rd2 Be7 13.Rfd1 transposes to Zelic-Armanda, Split 1998. I think White can play more ambitiously with 16.Nxf7!? than Zelic did.
In general I think White only should sac the piece sac, if Black plays ...b4. The reason is of course to have a4 available for the bishop. Specifically I think 11...Qb8 12.Nd5 Nh5 is quite good for Black. After 12.Rd2 b4 13.Nd5 Nh5 White has 14.Ba4, keeping Black's king in the centre. Things are going downhill very quickly after 11...Qb8 12.Rd2 b4 13.Nd5 exd5 14.exd5+ Be7 15.Re1 (it does not matter from where this rook is coming) Ng8 16.Ba4.
A deviation from this pattern is 11...Qb8 12.Rd2 Be7 13.Rfd1 b4 14.Rxd6.
So Black's most solid option is 11...Qb8 12.Rd2 b4 13.Nd5 Nc5, but White must have sufficient long term compenation after 14.Nxf6+ gxf6 15.Bc2. [/quote]

Maybe you've right i'm not sure at all that 12.Nd5 is the best move maybe Rd2 is better
But,imo, it's quite premature to give a black advantage after 12.Nd5 Nh5 .This need further investigations Tongue 
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #32 - 07/20/07 at 05:05:37
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Thanks, your stuff looks quite good. Anyhow you have convinced me, that the queen's rook must go to d1. Then White can play the king's rook to the e-file, if necessary.

Dji wrote on 07/19/07 at 20:52:00:

In the line  8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Bf4 Ngf6 11.Rad1 Qb8 again 12.Nd5 and here it's  adventurous to take the knight 12...ed5 13.e5!? (13.ed5 is probably good for white too)with an attack


As I already wrote, this line does not worry me. Just 12.Rd2 Be7 13.Rfd1 transposes to Zelic-Armanda, Split 1998. I think White can play more ambitiously with 16.Nxf7!? than Zelic did.
In general I think White only should sac the piece sac, if Black plays ...b4. The reason is of course to have a4 available for the bishop. Specifically I think 11...Qb8 12.Nd5 Nh5 is quite good for Black. After 12.Rd2 b4 13.Nd5 Nh5 White has 14.Ba4, keeping Black's king in the centre. Things are going downhill very quickly after 11...Qb8 12.Rd2 b4 13.Nd5 exd5 14.exd5+ Be7 15.Re1 (it does not matter from where this rook is coming) Ng8 16.Ba4.
A deviation from this pattern is 11...Qb8 12.Rd2 Be7 13.Rfd1 b4 14.Rxd6.
So Black's most solid option is 11...Qb8 12.Rd2 b4 13.Nd5 Nc5, but White must have sufficient long term compenation after 14.Nxf6+ gxf6 15.Bc2.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #31 - 07/19/07 at 20:52:00
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continuation 16...Ne4 17.Re1 Qf6 (...Rc8 18.Qd3 f5 19.Nd4 Bd4 20.Qd4 Qf6 21.Qxb4 Rb8 22.Qa5 f4 23.f3 Nec5 24.Bf2 Qd8 25.Qc3+-) 18.Bd5 Bd5 19.Rd5 Ng3 20.hg3 Bb6 (or 20...Rc8 21.Qd2 Qd8 22. Re7 Nf6 23.Ng5+/-) 21.Qd2 Rd8 22.Re7 b3 23.ab3 h6 24.Qc2 g6 25.Qc2 Qb2 26.Rd7 Bf2+ 27.Kh2 Td7 28.Qd7 Rg7 29.Qe5 Kh7 30.d7 Bb6 31.Rd6 Bd8 32.Ra6+/-
16...h6  16...Be4   16...Bxf3  16...g6 are good for white too


In the line  8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Bf4 Ngf6 11.Rad1 Qb8 again 12.Nd5 and here it's  adventurous to take the knight 12...ed5 13.e5!? (13.ed5 is probably good for white too)with an attack
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #30 - 07/19/07 at 14:13:35
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MNb wrote on 07/19/07 at 03:43:58:
Quite similar are Hamitevici,V-Spoelman,W/Kreta 2004 and Schmelz,A-Johannesson,J/ICCF Email 2002. That is where I got the ideas from.

8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Bf4 Ngf6 11.Rad1 b4 12.Nd5 exd5 13.exd5+ (you will have to convince me of White's chances after 13.e5 dxe5 14.Nxe5 Be7) Be7 14.Re1 Kf8 (iso Ng8) 15.Nd4 Ne5 and I don't see White crushing through, but maybe it's just me.


Sorry it seem i've mixed variation and game in my database and it's result that my precedent post is bad but now i've find the good one and i want to give plenty of variation just to show that white have something for the piece less.

8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Bf4 Ngf6 11.Rad1 b4 12.Nd5 exd5 13.exd5+  Be7 14.Bxd6 (14.Re1 is interesting too 14...Kf8 15.Nh4 for example Ne5? 16.Bxe5 de5 17.d6+/-  or 15...g6 16.Bh6+ Ke8 17.Ba4 Ndxd5 18.Qf3   or   15...Nc5 16.Nf5 Nxb3 17.ab3 Nxd5 18.Qg4+-   or   15...Ne8 16.Nf5 Bf6 17.Nd6 Nd6 18.Bd6+ Kg8 19.Be7 Be7 20.Qe7 Qe7 21.Re7 Nc5 22.d6 h6 23.Bxf7+ with good compensation, but one line is not clear and here i think 14.Bxd6 is probably stronger . 14...Kf8 15.Bg3 Bc5 (other moves are probably worse 15...Qa5 16.d6 Bd8 17.Wc4 Nd5 18.Rd5 Bd5 19.Qd5 Qd5 20.Bd5 Rc8 21.Bb7 Rc2 22.Ba6 Rb2 23.Bb5 Nf6 24.Ne5 b3 25.ab3 Rb3 26.Bc4 Rb7 27.Nc6+-  or 15...Ng8 16.d6 Bf6 17.Rc1 a5 Rc7 Ba6 19.Bc4 Bc4 20.Qc4 Bb2 21.Bh4 f6 22.Qd5 Rb8 23.Qe6+/-)   16.d6 Qe8 Fritz's favorite move 17.Qc4 Rc8 (Bxf3 and Ne4 are not particulary better) 18.Rfe1 Ne4 19.Qd3 Bb6Ng5 Nxg5 21.Re8 Re8 22.Ba4+/-    16....Ne4 Fritz second favorite .....Oh sorry i 've to work the end next time
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #29 - 07/19/07 at 03:43:58
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Quite similar are Hamitevici,V-Spoelman,W/Kreta 2004 and Schmelz,A-Johannesson,J/ICCF Email 2002. That is where I got the ideas from.

8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Bf4 Ngf6 11.Rad1 b4 12.Nd5 exd5 13.exd5+ (you will have to convince me of White's chances after 13.e5 dxe5 14.Nxe5 Be7) Be7 14.Re1 Kf8 (iso Ng8) 15.Nd4 Ne5 and I don't see White crushing through, but maybe it's just me.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #28 - 07/18/07 at 13:16:24
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[quote author=MNb link=1159716408/15#27 date=1184632995]8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Bf4
a)10...b4 11.Na4 Ngf6 and now what? The piece sac 11.Nd5 exd5 12.exd5+ Be7 13.Bxd6 Kf8 does not look correct to me.

I know just a game in this line: Matychenkov-Padymov . Black 've tried to play logical maves and develop as quickly as possible but problems remains 13.Bxd6 Kf8 14.Bg3 Nh6 (of course there is plenty of other possible moves and i try one or two...) 15.d6 Bf6 16.Rac1 g6 17.Rc7 Bf3 18.Qf3 Kg7 and i believe in this position white have at least équality...   
 
b)10...Ngf6 11.Rad1 (iso 11.Rfd1)
b1)after 11...Qb8 White has nothing better than 12.Rd2, which only transposes.
b2)The advantage might become clear after 11...b4 12.Nd5 exd5 (Nc5!?)13.exd5+ Be7 14.Bxd6 Kf8 15.Bxe7+ (15.Bg3!?) Qxe7 16.Qxe7+ Kxe7 17.d6+ Kf8 18.Ng5 h6 19.Nxf7 Rh7 20.Rfe1, which is not possible with the rook on a1 iso f1.

11...b4 12.Nd5 exd5 (Nc5!? ok interesting but black king have to find his way)13.exd5+ Be7 and here 14.Re1 (is stronger than 14.Bxd6) Ng8 (...0-0 15.De7+=) 15.Nd4 with the idea Nf5 and my analyse black's  evidente lack of developpemant is  a compentation more than sufficient but white have another way 12.Nd5 exd5 13.e5!?
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #27 - 07/17/07 at 00:43:15
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8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Bf4
a)10...b4 11.Na4 Ngf6 and now what? The piece sac 11.Nd5 exd5 12.exd5+ Be7 13.Bxd6 Kf8 does not look correct to me.
b)10...Ngf6 11.Rad1 (iso 11.Rfd1)
b1)after 11...Qb8 White has nothing better than 12.Rd2, which only transposes.
b2)The advantage might become clear after 11...b4 12.Nd5 exd5 (Nc5!?)13.exd5+ Be7 14.Bxd6 Kf8 15.Bxe7+ (15.Bg3!?) Qxe7 16.Qxe7+ Kxe7 17.d6+ Kf8 18.Ng5 h6 19.Nxf7 Rh7 20.Rfe1, which is not possible with the rook on a1 iso f1.

One idea to meet Sevenviolets 9.Qe2 Nd7 10.Ng5 is Be7 11.f4 Bxg5 12.fxg5 Ne7 and White is a pawn down with no lead in development.
8.0-0 d6 9.Bf4 has been played before; after Nf6 I don't see anything better than 10.Qe2 Nbd7 (now b4!?) transposing once again.

I wonder, what Langrock has to say about 9.Qe2 Nd7 10.Rd1 Ngf6 11.Bf4 b4!? As 12.Na4 Nxe4 13.Bc2 Nef6 14.Bxd6 Bxd6 15.Rxd6 Qc7 16.Rd4 0-0 leaves Black with a safe extra pawn, I suppose it has to be 12.Nd5 exd5 13.exd5+
a)13...Be7 14.Bxd6 is an inferior version of variation b2 above.
b)13...Qe7 14.Qd2 Ne4 15.Qxb4 Ndc5 16.Ba4+ Kd8 17.Re1 again makes me wish, that White had played 10.Bf4 Ngf6 11.Rd1.

Maybe White can try 11.a3 Be7 12.Rfd1 (or 12.Rad1) Qb8 13.Rd2 0-0 14.Rad1 Byfield-Torres Santa, Philadelphia 2000. In an informal corr game my opponent answered Nc5 15.Bc2 e5 and I was happy with 16.Bg5 Rd8 17.b4 Ne6 18.Bxf6 Bxf6 19.Bb3 Nd4 20.Nxd4 exd4 21.Nd5 Bxd5 22.Bxd5 Ra7 23.f4 Rc8 24.g4 MNb-Peeters, corr 1996.
Of course I would like to save the tempo spend on 11.a3, but the 11...b4 variations are not clear to me.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #26 - 11/14/06 at 20:50:06
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Yes all that are not too convincing for white but it seem that white rooks are misplaced 
  The question is why to the king's rook on d1?

8.0-0 d6 9.De2 Nbd7 10.Bf4!? with the idea Rad1
                                    Thought

  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #25 - 11/14/06 at 11:37:38
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What I don't get about Langrock's analysis is his mainline after 12. Rd4 goes 12...a5 13. Bg5 Be7 14. Bxf6 Nxf6.
I would say that after 12...a5 13. Bf4 is very annoying for black. White immediately piles up on the d-pawn with 14. Rad1 coming. He can't play 13...e5 14. Bxe5 dxe5 15. Nxe5, nor 13...Qb8 14. Rad1 e5 15. Nxe5 dxe5 16. Qc4 crashing through. 
Actually I think after 12. Rd4 the threat of 13. Bf4 more or less forces 12...Qa5, moving out of the firepower of the Rd4. Then after Langrock's 13. Bg5 I would prefer 13...Qb5 14. Qe1 a5 over his 13...Rc8, though that is playable too of course.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #24 - 11/12/06 at 17:40:12
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BadPritt wrote on 11/12/06 at 12:38:09:
 
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Nf3 a6 6.Bc4 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.0-0 d6 9.Qe2 Nd7 10.Rd1 b4 11.Na4 Ngf6 12.Rd4.
Anyone willing to discuss this position (or maybe criticize it)?


    12.Rd4 Qa5!?  13.Bg5!? 14.Qe1 Ne5 15.Bd2 with compensation Langrock
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #23 - 11/12/06 at 17:12:36
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Sevenviolets wrote on 11/10/06 at 22:04:31:
Well, actually this line is known for a long time. Nothing new. I analysed all lines after Nd5 to +-. 8..b4? is a mistake. Is Langrock book good? What does he recommend against 9..e5 main line?


Yes it's a good book .Langrrock play the morra since years,there is plenty improvements black and withe. more objective than Palkovi 's book.

Is recommendation against the main line is 10.Be3 0-0 11.b4!? Langrock
and mine 10.Be3 0-0 11.b4!  lol

  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #22 - 11/12/06 at 12:38:09
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To be a bit more concrete I would propose the "tabiya"-position of this variation arises after 
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Nf3 a6 6.Bc4 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.0-0 d6 9.Qe2 Nd7 10.Rd1 b4 11.Na4 Ngf6 12.Rd4.
Anyone willing to discuss this position (or maybe criticize it)?
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #21 - 11/11/06 at 19:32:34
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While 8...b4 may well be a bit too ambitious, I don't think this is especially relevant. As MNb some posts ago stated, black can play 8...d6 9. Qe2 Nd7 10. 0-0, transposing back to 8.Qe2. This is also given as a mainline by Langrock.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #20 - 11/10/06 at 22:04:31
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Well, actually this line is known for a long time. Nothing new. I analysed all lines after Nd5 to +-. 8..b4? is a mistake. Is Langrock book good? What does he recommend against 9..e5 main line?
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #19 - 11/10/06 at 06:27:46
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I wouldn't disagree with that based on rough impressions.  Black's position seems miserable after the knight sac.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #18 - 11/09/06 at 09:43:26
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FM hannes Langrock in his  new (october 2006) book on the morra give:
   4...e6 5.Nf3 a6 6.Bc4 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.0-0! b4!? 9.Nd5! (Na4?!) with good conpensation (in fact white adventage)
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #17 - 10/19/06 at 13:40:49
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In the variation 8.0-0 d6 there is also he simple 9.Bf4 and now if b4?! 10.Ba4+
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #16 - 10/19/06 at 12:19:39
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Not only is not in the spirit, it is completely illogical. Black's ...b5 has no drawbacks, so it's just a waste of a move. But even 6. Bd3 is wrong. Clogs up the d-file, which is White's main avenue of attack and oviously tactics along the a2-g8 diagonal are also taken out of the picture.

Once again, SevenViolets' sacrifices look outlandish to me, but refuting them is another matter...
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #15 - 10/19/06 at 00:39:56
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1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 I think that 7.Bd3 is better than 7.Bb3 but i cant find good games with it.
What do you think?
I know that 7.Bd3 maybe is not in the spirit of the morra.
Bye
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #14 - 10/15/06 at 08:38:37
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1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 and as for 8.0-0 b4? 9.Nd5!! there are long forced lines to 1-0 after accepting the sacrifice with 9..exd5 10.exd5+- Black can deviate with 9..Nc6 but after 10.Re1, white has dangerous initiative.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #13 - 10/15/06 at 08:35:29
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1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. Qe2 d6 9. 0-0 Nd7

I prefer 8.0-0 move order, but let´s say it tranposes...

8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Ng5!? leaves us with immensely complicated position.

10..h6 11.Nxe6! fxe6 12.Bxe6 with compensation. (12..g6 13.e5 or 12..Ngf6 13.Be3!?) or 10..Ngf6 11.f4!?

Difficult to say if 10.Ng5!? is good or bad. Sure it is very complex and unclear. Ok for OTB games. For corr. games, it needs to be deeply analysed.

  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #12 - 10/11/06 at 19:42:57
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This line (without an early Bb7) was featured in a book called Smith-Morra gambit: Finegold defence by Finegold and Ciaffone. Including Bb7 only changes the position slightly. 
After 1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. Qe2 d6 9. 0-0 Nd7 10.Rd1 b4 11. Na4 Ngf6 12. Rd4 12...Qa5 looks strong. 11.Nd5 does not work so good because Black has not played Ngf6 enabling the knight to defend the e7 square after taking on d5 opens the e-file, while Rd1 looks a bit silly.

White can possibly improve with 12.Bc2 or the speculative 12.Bf4.
At move 10 there is 10.Bf4 or 10.Nd4!? in both cases intending an improved version of the sacrifice 10...b4 11.Nd5. In the former case White also has the opstion of meeting Ngf6 with e4-e5.
I wouldn't count White out in all of these lines.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #11 - 10/11/06 at 01:56:48
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Not only is White's compensation highly dubious after 8.0-0 b4. Moreover I don't see anything better than a transposition with 8.0-0 d6 9.Qe2.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #10 - 10/10/06 at 19:15:15
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   Yes I aagree that 12.Rd4 Qa5! is better fot black so it seem that 8.0-0 instead of 8.Qe2 is the last chance
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #9 - 10/10/06 at 13:48:00
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Thanks for the input, guys!  I need a few days to look into this...

  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #8 - 10/08/06 at 13:47:00
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Ok, I have taken my look and in the position after 1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. Qe2 d6 9. 0-0 Nd7 10.Rd1 b4 11. Na4 Ngf6 12. Rd4 I think the right move is 12...Qa5.
Now white can go for the relatively quiet 13. Bd2 Qb5 14. Qe1 a5, but I fail to see a good continuation from here. It seems the most white can get is control of the open c-file after for example 15. Rac1 Be7 16. Rdc4 0-0 17. Nd4 Qe5 18. Nf3 Qh5 19. Rc7 Rab8, but the rook can be driven back by ...Bd8 and the Na4 is still out of play. Black is  better.
More in the true Morraspirit seems 13. Bf4 e5 14. Qc4 which can lead to a fantastic mess after 14...exd4 15. Qxf7 Kd8 16. Nxd4 Kc8 17. Rc1 Kb8 18. Rc6 Ra7 19. Nb6 Qxb6 20. Rxb6 Nxb6 21. Qe6. However, after the more prosaic 14...exf4 15. Qxf7 Kd8 I don't see a convincing way for white to continue the attack.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #7 - 10/08/06 at 08:15:08
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Thanks MNB, I will have a look at it. Funny to see how the thought of 12. Rd4 never even entered my head, while Fritz gives it in a splitsecond. By the way I saw that there is a new book out on the Morra written by german FM Hannes Langrock. Might be interesting to see his analysis.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #6 - 10/08/06 at 00:38:14
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Bangiev has written an article - I am too lazy to look for it now - on this line because of Kocsis-Bangiev, Budapest Open 1989, won by Black. This game saw 10.Rd1 b4 11.Na4 (iirc Bangiev refuted 11.Nd5) Nf6 12.Rd4 a5 and here Bangiev gives the improvement 13.Bf4 e5 (I suppose 13...Qb8 is better, but 14.Rad1 gives White enough for the pawn) 14.Bxe5 dxe5 15.Nxe5 and White is winning. So it seems Black is not that OK.
This is another gap in Palkovi's book on the Morra Gambit.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #5 - 10/07/06 at 21:39:28
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Hi Stormcrow,

I have been playing this line against the Morra a lot in internetblitz and  think its indeed an interesting attempt at direct refutation. After 1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. Qe2 d6 9. 0-0 Nbd7 10. Rd1, as given by MNB, the right move seems to be 10...b4. If white ever wants to play the Nd5-sacrifice he has to do it now, but I find it hard to believe. I have had this position several times and all my opponents played 11. Na4, but after 11...Nf6 black looks more than ok to me.
  
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J-dog
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #4 - 10/04/06 at 05:04:34
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Hmm...thanks for the advice.  I would very much like to see an example of the Nd5 sac with Rooks piled on the d-line, I just can't get this variation out of my head.  I think a stark visual example of Black getting thrashed would be just the right tonic for my ailment!  Would somebody indulge me?

Many thanks in advance!

p.s. I saw your correspondence game posted MNb, but maybe an example where black pushes the knight sooner.  I think the earlier the better...thanks again!  (if this doesn't work out, I think I'm back to the Alapin transposition, maybe it's less hassle).
  
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MNb
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #3 - 10/03/06 at 05:03:17
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After 7.Bg5 Black has to make a concession; play is likely to transpose after f6 8.Be3 Nbc6. This is a difficult, but respectable defence though.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #2 - 10/02/06 at 15:52:54
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There's a player at my club who always plays the smith morra against the sicilian... actually he has stopped playing it against me after I continually beat him playing the line i'll suggest to you here. The line goes 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 Nge7 7.Qe2 Ng3  and then play your dark bishop out and caslte. There are no tricks here and your strategy is simply to exchange pieces and make the pawn up advantage a winning advantage.
  
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MNb
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #1 - 10/02/06 at 01:45:46
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This is not a sensible choice for Black. White's strategy is to postpone a2-a3, toying with the thematical sac Nc3-d5 and double the rooks on the d-file.

In two friendly corr games I had two wins after 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nbd7 10.Rd1 Nf6 (Be7 transposes) 11.Bf4 Qb8 12.Rd2 Be7 (b4 13.Nd5!) 13.a3 (necessary?) 0-0 14.Rad1 Nc5 15.Bc2.

Much better is 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6, see the thread Hague-Überdeker. Also the defence with e6 and Nge7 is reliable.
  
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Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
10/01/06 at 15:26:47
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I've yet to decide how I wish to play when I'm faced with the Morra Gambit.  I usually decline it by going into the Nf6/Nc6 or Nf6/e6 branches of the Alapin (c3) Sicilian.  However, I can't help but feel that I'm letting my opponent off easy and that I should be putting a sterner test to his opening choice.  The only line of the Morra Accepted that has ever interested me goes 4...a6 5.Bc4 e6 6.Nf3 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 with pressure on e4 and b4 soon to come.   

I think it was Nunn's Chess Openings that made a passing comment that those who are interested in looking for a refutation (of the Morra) should look at this line.  I've played it offhand in some games with success, and I like especially the idea of interrupting white's coordination by pushing the knight (or forcing a3), but I can't help feeling a bit suspicious about the whole idea: developing and loosening the queenside, leaving the kingside pieces at home, all in the name of pursuing another pawn!

I'm asking for anyone's opinion who has had any experience (on either side) with this line, or who has an idea and wants to chime in.  Also, if anyone has the newest book on the Morra (I forget the title) and could share what it says about this line, I would be very grateful. Thanks!
  
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